Sounds sensible to me

Posted by FS on December 19, 2010 17:32

What Khun Paiboon doesn't realise is that if you retire here over 65, it is not possible to get insurance

Good idea if the government were to pay for retirees to be insured. Otherwise not possible. I hope the Consuls realise this.

Posted by wellington on December 19, 2010 17:39

You can get insurance if you are over 65 !!
Just check around and there is companies who offer that !
You can also get it from your home country.
Of course shall the Thai system not pay for foreigners !!

But they could also make sure that all Thai employers followed the law and paid social security for all workers as they shall after Thai law, that is also for Burmese etc. then would the problem in hospitals be much lower!

Posted by peter on December 19, 2010 18:09

Great idea, why should the Thais pay for people being sick here, all should have insurance not only the grumpy "old",,,,, and keep the 800K in the bank for at least six months

Posted by southbound on December 19, 2010 18:27

This all appears to be a little cloudy to me...and I wonder if the insurance companies are using this guy as a puppet...I think it would be better to let the hospitals develop better criteria to protect themselves from not getting compensation....Instead of MAKING people buy into insurance...The Hell with that!!!

Posted by sky on December 19, 2010 18:41

This is not a country that you can retire to on an income/pension of less than 1 million baht per year. There are cheats who I know of that falsify their income documents and other cheats that borrow money to make up the 800,000 in their bank accounts. It is up to Immigration with the help of Consuls or Embassies to ensure that they sort the good from the bad. Once over the age of 65 health insurance is impossible to obtain. If farang are in public hospitals and unable to pay then they should not have retirement visas in the first place. It would be better for the hospitals to ask the Consuls for proof of income before they treat them, then, if they don't have sufficient funds they should be sent back to their home countries for treatment. Consuls and Embassies should ensure that proof of income documents are genuine and if this is done there will be fewer people on retirement visas and no people in public hospitals unable to pay. Why should the majority of honest retirees suffer because of a few cheating scroungers?

Posted by Pete on December 19, 2010 19:12

Khun Paiboon is not very well informed. I am 79 and live in Phuket supporting my Thai wife and family from my overseas pension. No insurance company is willing to insure me at my age. I did spend 2 months at Vachira Hospital a year ago (Bangkok Hospital being well over my means), but I paid for my private room and treatment out of my own pocket. The Baht 800,000 I keep in the bank to satisfy the visa requirement are my own and stay in the bank all year round. Does Khun Paiboon want me to leave and abandon my Thai family? Is he willing to take care of them?

Posted by Guenter Bellach on December 19, 2010 19:31

Sorry Sirs, but I do not want an insurance. I have National Insurance in my country in Europe and all the Thays over there have it free as well.
More over, if a Thai is married to an European, when widow, will have the property of the land and the pension of the decesed.
I mean "a big cake" for all and for free and you with your restrictions are just appalling to me.
Keep your beds for you I couldn't care less.
Regarding the 800,000 baht, what is it for? Deposit? you grabbers!
Do you no know the tale of the fox and the grape, well is just what is happening under everibody's nose right now.
So long.

Posted by carle on December 19, 2010 20:30

Then next step will be to make compulsory to all foreigners staying more than 183 days in a calendar year to declare all yearly incomes either from oversea or in Thailand as well to the Revenue department of Thailand to pay full taxes in Thailand.

Posted by Whistle-Blower on December 19, 2010 21:19

I know someone whose mother was in Vachira and she was on a European Pension but they wanted her out of there and did not pay. Disgusting after getting free treatment. As the daughter was in charge of the funds she probably spent it on herself.

Good way to get rid of some of the losers and freeloaders here.

Posted by Vfaye on December 19, 2010 22:20

Seems simple to me - Lock the 800k baht away as a surety, If the retiree expats are ill and refuse to pay for treatment then take the money out of their 800k baht. They will then need to top it up again or not get a new visa.

Posted by Benjy on December 19, 2010 23:22

Why does Khun Paiboon expect me to leave my 800,000 on the bank all year around with these lousy interest rates? A equivalent deposit on a foreign account should be good enough or otherwise give me a reasonable interest. And by the way, these 8 maxis are more than I ever spent in one year, except when buying a car for cash.

Posted by Fritz Pinguin on December 20, 2010 00:11

For decent healthcare anywhere in the world these days you need health insurance - why should Thailand be any different. The standard of the NHS in the UK requires those that feel the need to top up do, why not here. I have BUPA and as I understand it I cannot be refused a policy when a long way down the road I hit 65, as an existing customer. This is world wide cover, other than the exorbitant costs of the US which requires a supplement. Anyone who travels outside their home country without adequate health insurance is pretty foolish in my opinion.

I agree with the off-track comment about tying up the 800k though - its frankly ridiculous and archaic to tie up such a sum - the access rules seem to change and there's no consistency. Surely some sort of bond would be a better solution.

Posted by Mister Ree on December 20, 2010 11:47

I can see the merit in Khun Paiboon wanting to see expats have Health Insurance, but based on the fact that most insurance companies won't cover a person over the age of 65, maybe the Thai Government could provide such cover.

Interesting... would this compulsory insurance be on the level playing field as that of Compulsory Jet Ski Insurance?

What exactly is the point of showing 800,000 in the bank? How many Thais have 800,000 in the bank? Would the Consuls, at the next meeting, maybe bring up the issue of racial discrimination?

Lot's of questions but how may answers and real solutions?

Posted by Graham on December 20, 2010 13:02

I'm merely pointing that this a discriminatory. Proof of a retirement income should suffice.

Posted by Graham on December 20, 2010 13:32

Proof of retirement income is sufficient on its own as long as it is over 65,000 baht/month. (And the proof genuine).

Posted by Pete on December 20, 2010 13:46

I have been refused insurance because of Diabeties, no insurance company will touch Diabetics. Give me a company and I will get insurance

Posted by Big T on December 20, 2010 15:58

Big T - I am a diabetic (Type 1) and the only insurance company that will touch me is BUPA. But because its a pre-existing condition, any diabetic problems are not covered. Hope that helps you.

Also most insurances will NOT cover anyone over 65 UNLESS they have been with the company and the cover gets extended to 70 years of age like Thai Health Insurance, but it you are 66 - good luck getting anything.

Posted by Tbs on December 20, 2010 19:48

This sounds like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. My 800,000 baht has been lodged in a Thai bank for over four years. Every three months I have to go to immigration to register my address (the same for the last four years). I would be quite happy to take my account book with me to prove that I am not taking money out. Under the present system I only have to produce every twelve months. This is how the system is abused by many. May I suggest that retirees are required to prove at all times that they are not abusing the system? I enquired about insurance but was merely laughed at as I am 68 years old. my insurance is the 800,000 baht in the bank.

Posted by Expat retiree on December 20, 2010 20:48

I have lived in Thailand since 1992, the 1st half of that time having a work permit, paying substantial taxes, and the latter on annual retirement visas. I own my home and contribute to the healthcare, education and general well being of four generations of a Thai family. My regular physician is Thai and the one time that I needed in-patient hospital care I and my private insurance coverage paid for it all at a private hospital here. Soon I will be 70 and my insurance will end. My bank account here will be over 20 years old then. Good bye Thailand? Surely not?

Posted by Don Miller on December 21, 2010 10:52

Insurance Companies run a "business" based on health statistics. The small print contains many exceptions to certain illnesses and certain treatments (eg a hyperbaric oxygen chamber for burns and circulation problems for diabetes).
Many UK companies have a reference to the NICE review in their small print.
ie. you pay for private insurance but can only receive NHS cost effective medicine.
One of the few exceptions is Bupa International at Brighton, but its very expensive and increases with age of course, since old age is an insurance risk.
Bupa in Phuket Town will not insure a new expat over 60 yrs, and an existing customer over 65 yrs.
And so the proposed compulsory scheme will never work, due to the Insurance Companies themselves, in terms of age, illnesses covered and medicines covered.
The key words are - the Companies run a business based on statistics.

Posted by Anonymous on December 21, 2010 23:03

If a Thai citizen apply for a Shengen Tourist Visa, along with other documentation, he must provide also a health policy covering medical expenses for the duration of the journey with a sum insured at least of 30 million Baht.

Thailand should do the same and request compulsory insurance for all kind of visitors and expatiates. I believe that many, if not all, governments would endorse this issue 100%. I personally be aware of some cases where some expats and tourists without insurance have been repatriated with their government's special flights paid by the taxpayers.
This is a shame and a huge waste of money that could have been used for much better reasons instead that for the benefit of a single individual, the first to show complete disregard and contempt for himself by don't subscribing an insurance

Posted by Malpelo on December 21, 2010 23:17

#Malpelo: My wife is a Thai citizen, and along with a 5 year UK visa she has 3 one year Shengen visas. The only documentation she needs for the Shengen visa is her UK visa and 2 photos. She has never been asked about insurance cover. Perhaps it applies only to your girl/boy friend, and not to a wife.

Posted by Pete on December 22, 2010 07:57

"If a Thai citizen apply for a Shengen Tourist Visa, along with other documentation, he must provide also a health policy covering medical expenses for the duration of the journey with a sum insured at least of 30 million Baht."

Totally FALSE information. I have assisted (guaranteed) 3 schengen visa apps and multiple UK apps. None of them stipulated insurance.

Posted by LivinLOS on December 22, 2010 12:56

@ Pete

I'd never talking about Spouses of a Schengen area citizen which are subject to a totally different documentation requirement, I've said tourists.

@ LivinLOS
My country, Italy and France as well is in the Schengen treaty and for a tourist visa application they requiring a health policy as I mentioned above, you can check by yourself at the respective Embassy's web sites.

http://www.esteri.it/visti/home_eng.asp

http://www.ambafrance-th.org/spip.php?article1502

I'm quite sure that all the Schengen Area countries have the same rules.

I do mistake the amount of the sum covered which is 30,000 Euro and not 30 million Baht, sorry about that.

Posted by Malpelo on December 22, 2010 23:58

I do not buy for one minute that 40 retirees were in the hospital and did not have the funds to pay since most foreigners living here year round do not hold retiree status especially those who do not have the means in the bank or from their respective governments to qualify for the Visa. So if there were 40 retirees then there must be 89 or more over 50 non-retires in the same boat or worse off and this would pose a much bigger problem. So I challenge Phuket Wan to investigate this and find out the truth. I am sure that since the majority of foreign people over 50 living here do not hold a retirement visa (I did my own check of 20 people over 50 living here year round and found 65Pct still do Visa runs because they don't want to put the money in the bank or don't qualify through their embassies) this would make his argument for the 800 Thousand baht issue mute, However if a person is to live here more than six months out of each year it would seam more than reasonable to ask them to have verified medical insurance OR to keep 800,000 in the bank all year for emergencies regardless of visa status. I am sure this would make a lot of expats very unhappy and the truly poor ones would have to return home unless they are Married to a Thai then this issue should not apply and they should not be counted in the statistics as they should be in their own statistical category with their own set of requirements.

Posted by mike on December 26, 2010 10:48

Wow did you miss the point of note (the point was the solution may not correcting the issue as stated in the article) Khun Paiboon solution (medical insurance and possibly keeping 800,000 Baht in the bank year round) would not apply to 65 Pct of those over 50 all it might do is move people out of the retirement Visa and into another type of Visa thus not solving his concern. Change must be more comprehensive than what he is suggesting to fix the problem if the government truly believes this is a large enough of an issue that warrants government intervention.

Posted by Mike on December 26, 2010 12:52

What are the numbers of Thai's who occupy beds in the hospitals all over Thailand and cannot pay doctor's or hospital fees?
Of course Thai's thanks to PM Thaksin's efforts had a 30 baht fee for all enacted for medical access. I suspect there's some animosity toward Farangs in this article? Well deserved no doubt.

Posted by N2it on December 27, 2010 08:53

Let me spell it out. Over 15.5 million foreigners visit or stay in Thailand according to news reports this year. Out of that very large number, 40 foreigners we're told refused or couldn't pay for medical costs. Further we're led to believe that all were "retirees."
Remember some facts:
The number of Locals/Thai's who are employed by foreigners and their businesses.
The number of industries owned and operated by foreigners in this country.
The sale or export of Thai products to foreign countries.
All the above help support and serve millions of Thai families. Without the foreign investments I dare say the economic life of many Thai's would revert back to the paddy days.
Count the numbers of building projects that are targeted toward the foreign investor. In reality foreigners cannot own anything in the real estate business, unless its in a "true 49%/51% condo or apartment complex. There are few of those in existence.
The continual expose' by Phuketwan of so called mis-deeds by foreigners against Thai citizens or businesses is manufactured by the editor for sensationalism and negativity toward foreigners.
The percentages of Thai's on the welfare roles is immense and climbing in the one way society. 40 foreigners, if true, is a mere drop in the bucket when compared to the vast numbers of Thai welfare recipients.
BTW, isn't Thailand promoting "Medical tourism?" Right, you want foreign tourist, but not foreign residents.
Foreign residents buy property, spend on services, raise families, contribute toward the business areas of their locality, run businesses, employ Thai's but yet they are unwanted.
somethings seriously wrong with the thinking on this as well as most issues related to foreigners in residence in Thailand and their contribution toward Thai society.

Posted by N2it on December 28, 2010 09:04

Now there are or must be "hundreds of these foreign deadbeats abusing the Thai medical system." Com'on Editor, surely you can do better than that? (No racism in that comment?) Speaking of taxes being paid; Foreigners pay much higher taxes than do Thai's in the LOS and without knowing the exact numbers, I guess that expats pay taxes more often and in larger percentages than any Thai. Foreign business from Automobile manufactures to computer manufacturers pay for Thai social security systems, severance pay, medical insurance as well as taxes on services, products, facilities and income. If you watch the SET you'll know that the vast majority of investor's are "foreign." Not Thai. Get a grip Ed.

Posted by N2it on December 28, 2010 15:17

Ed: Ripping off the Thai health care?
Nobody is released of any Hospital here if her/his bill is not settled before. That's what I learned among other things from this young German guy who was found at Hat Yai-Airport and then laying in Hospital for a few months - until the bill was paid...
How about 3900 baht for a one year visa?
Just guesswork: More than an average local worker is paying tax?

Posted by herbert on December 28, 2010 18:02

Important topic as the quantity of comments indicates --- maybe I missed something important: is there a way to be insured beyond age 70?

Posted by Don Miller on December 31, 2010 12:46

Perhaps Khun Paiboon Upatising could gets the funding from the profit he is making out of foreigners visiting Patong hospital. B500 'professional fees' for a foreigner to see a doctor. B50 for a Thai. Then the cost of medicine, GPO (Government Pharmaceutical Organisation) medicine available from GPO in Bangkok B700, same medicine in Patong Hospital (government) B1200. Recently the government announced a crackdown on double standards for Thais and foreigners. If there were no foreigners in Phuket, Patong Hospital would go bust, it is that heavily subsidised by foreigners.

Posted by Double Standards on January 6, 2011 14:21

The situation is easily remedied, the Thai government will provide health insurance for retirement visa holders 50 til death, by direct debit from the 800,000 baht account, at say 100 baht per month, not to be replenished.

Posted by Mike on January 8, 2011 11:28

Acne might be excluded...
:-)

I have to apologise for my former post, Editor! I have learned that there are indeed Expats who are leaving the Hospitals on the Island without paying!

Posted by herbert on January 8, 2011 12:26