What ever happened at Chom Tawan and the owner that skipped town?

Posted by Farang on September 28, 2015 08:37

All this is doing is shining a spotlight onto the exact practices and attitudes that those of us branded 'doomsayers' have been trying to warn against for years.

Posted by LivinLOS on September 28, 2015 08:45

When my friends lost their property, they actually got it back from proving to the court that they had bought it with their income. The income of the other party was so much less, it was impossible for them to say they bought it.

We all know of the horror stories that go on in Thailand when it comes to property. A sad but true fact of being here.

Posted by Tbs on September 28, 2015 09:10

In Thailand and in particular Phuket, cheating a farang and stealing his money and properties has never been a sin for most of Thais and many expats in tourism businesses love to play this national sport as much they can.

Posted by WhistleBlower on September 28, 2015 09:41

if the house is not in your name but in your wifes name accept that when she boring of you she have the right to kick you out.
Dont say that you didn't know that and come to cry in the media,

Posted by Knowless figures on September 28, 2015 11:25

This is how easy it is to loose your home or business on Phuket in just one working day.

As dawn breaks your signature is forged on a document transferring your property valued at close to 30 million Baht to a corrupt land agent.

The land agent does not have your land title deed because it is in your safe. No problem they simply go to the local police station and report that it has been lost or destroyed.

Without questioning the corrupt police officer writes a report confirming the loss or accidental destruction of your land title deed.

The land agent takes the police report and the counterfeit property transfer directly to the land office.

The corrupt land office official who is obliged by law to inform the Anti Money Laundering Office in Bangkok of suspicious dealings does not question how a house valued at close to 30 million Baht has been sold for a sum closer to 1 million Baht.

After lunch the land agent with the newly acquired land title deed goes to the local bank manager and applies for a loan of 15 million Baht using the stolen 30 million Baht property as security.

The loan application in total contravention of all banking regulations is approved and that afternoon 15 million Baht cash is transferred to the land agents bank account.

This is possible because the main beneficiary of the fraud is the bank manager himself.

The land agent vanishes and fails to make a single loan repayment.

The Bank in due course takes possession of your 30 million Baht property and the manager profits by 15 million Baht.

You only discover what happened when the court orders you to vacate your home.

The criminal court rules fraud but the civil court ruling defies the law and logic. You have lost your home.

The bank instead of taking legal action against their manager retires him on full pension and sues you the rightful owner.

Job well done Phuket! Corruption on the island is multi layered ingrained and impenetrable.

Sadly many have not just lost their investments but their lives too. Phuket???s final solution is the islands greatest shame the uninvestigated, unsolved suspicious deaths of foreigners.

Now I ask would you dare invest in Phuket?

Solution? All properties bought and sold by foreign nationals in Thailand must be verified and stamped by their Consulate or Embassy

Posted by Colin Vard on September 28, 2015 11:31

if you take a walk from kalim to the thavorn hotel have a look down and you can see the remains of a hotel it was closed why

Posted by bondi on September 28, 2015 11:37

The developer and his wife(Thai) have moved back to UK. Maybe they should sell their assets in UK ie there home and start to pay back their debts. This would be the correct thing to do. The salesperson is still in Phuket he's selling property for another developer now. If this was NZ , Australia, Canada or UK the Developer would have had to sell up and pay their debts back. It's all wrong. Its caused many people a whole lot of stress and cost I hear buyers a lot in legal fees. It's criminal what this developer has done and it's wrong he's not here to face the music.
I would never purchase property in Thailand.

Posted by Anna on September 28, 2015 12:56

I and 24 other buyers of a failed condo development 1996-8 are still waiting return of the money despite a 2009 court verdict against the developer. The latest is that there is a Criminal Defamation charge brought by the developers against me.

Posted by David Haines on September 28, 2015 12:57

Colin Vard's comment is well made. Leases are cancelled in just the same way and the property transferred to a bank via a mortgage or money lender for a small percentage of the market value. Let's not pretend these people do not know the facts and turn a blind eye to the crime. Thai law after all protects the buyer opposite to UK law where the buyer must beware - especially if buying for a cheap price.

Perhaps worse than this is the finding of the judge ruling on the company fraud and subsequent theft. As a Director who was removed by fraud you have NO AUTHORITY to sue to protect the assets of the company until such time as the Directorship is restored. That restoration happens only by court order for which the removed Director must prove the fraud or other illegal way in which the Directorship was removed; that takes many, many months, if not years to process. In the meantime the company assets are in the hands of the fraudsters to be sold or charged at will.

According to the judgements in my cases this is a matter of public order. I am not sure how society benefits from disallowing a fraudulently removed Director to protect assets at risk from the people who carried out the illegal act but that is the law as it stands.

This means that any business is at risk from fraud which can happen in a few hours at the DBD, and even if you find out hours later the courts will not be of any immediate help.

That is a very frightening prospect for anyone with a business.

Posted by Ian Rance on September 28, 2015 13:39

The simple solution that I've been advocating: "NEVER BUY PROPERTY IN THAILAND." It makes no financial sense and the rental inventory grows daily. Maybe they'll stop building if we stop buying.

Posted by Pinot on September 28, 2015 13:58

To a lesser loss but the thinking by many Thai landlords that they can just keep a deposit when you give the house/apartment back in good shape. I have been ripped off 3 times in 8 years, one just didn't show up. I engaged lawyers but being a unfurnished property it would be very difficult to get the money and legal fees were only partially covered. There needs to be a proper system in place as many people I have spoken to have the same problem.

Posted by I am prretty far from ok on September 28, 2015 15:31

Great article, great comments. Thanks. Here we see, what to loose, when Phuketwan folds in January.

Posted by Lena on September 28, 2015 16:06

Why do you have the words "slave labour" in quotation marks? Are you attempting calling the term into questions?

I don't get it. I don't like it. It is a fact, not a semantic possibility.

Posted by Americanish on September 28, 2015 18:05

"Don't say that you didn't know that and come to cry in the media."

What a loser statement. How bitter are you - to make fun of victims?

Posted by farang888 on September 29, 2015 03:31

Ian and Colin,
The word is getting out on what happened to both of you.

For my tiny part I published an E book called "Scam City Thailand - From A to Z," and both of your stories are included.

There's a lot about property theft in the manuscript, and all the concomitant tricks. You two are experts on the matter.

I almost bought a condo in Thailand in 2011 (I'm married to a Thai) and decided against it, rather my father advised me not too and I reluctantly listened. We just rent.

All the Best from Canada

Posted by farang888 on September 29, 2015 07:22

For what it's worth, I have a condo here in Phujet which I bought - not off plan but once it was complete. Paid cash for it, and it wasn't terribly expensive, but it's a nice enough place. I still have property abroad as well

My advice to anyone thinking of buying is to only spend what you can afford to lose. I would never sell my property in the UK and put everything into Thailand, it's far too risky. If someone forged documents and stole my condo I would be annoyed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Property and lots of other investments in Thailand are hugely risky - only risk what you can afford to lose!

Posted by Discover Thainess on September 29, 2015 14:08

Thank you for your support Farang 888 and Phuket Wan. On our Justice for Jessie Facebook page we are receiving hundreds of letters from others defrauded in Phuket and Thailand. We will soon launch the C.U.P community and try create a body of people requiring justice. Good job on Scam City. What people don't realise is despite what the press reports the woman in my case was not my wife but a housekeeper and had not been working for me for 3 years when this started. She had worked for me for 7 years without any problems. As always they have a mentor who does a double whammy on them with the foot soldiers going to jail while the real criminals are out on the streets. We will keep fighting. Have a look at the Facebook page.

Posted by Colin Vard on September 29, 2015 14:40

Hi Colin and Ian

About a week ago I viewed the short documentary made by BBC's Jonathan Head.

I was quite sickened by what has happened to the two of you.

It might be that you never receive any compensation for the frauds that you have suffered but I wish to thank and congratulate you for bringing your plight to the attention of others. Too often victims of fraud just go away and suffer in silence. In contrast, the two of you have, at the very least, issued a loud warning to others.

Some great comments here too from the likes of farang888 and a dreadful comment from "Knowless figures".

Colin and Ian, I wish you guys much better fortune in the future.

Cheers

Posted by Ian Yarwood on September 29, 2015 15:16

A friend of mine bought a condo off plan in Patong on 50 Pee Rd. The project was over 2y late and construction grossly sub-standard. He refused to accept the apartment among with 2 other foreign buyers. They all sued the Thai developer and despite the best attempts of some of their own lawyers, they won the case.

The developer was denied the right to appeal and the verdict became enforceable. The company had assets they tried to hide but the properties were seized by the county.

My friend was awarded over Bt 4m plus interests but despite seized land titles sufficient to cover the amount, his own lawyer tried everything he could to coerce him to enter a settlement with the developer for less than 40%.

He finally fired the lawyer and the second one, despite a good start, has also started to stall.

In the meanwhile he has left Thailand, fearing for his own safety. He only visits when absolutely necessary. The verdict was delivered over 2y ago but not 1 baht has been repaid to date.

Being a lawyer in Thailand is a profession restricted to Thais only so you have no choice.

The actions of those lawyers involved in his case would have them immediately disbarred in a developed nation. Over here they just laugh if you tell them you'll report them to the ethics comity.

I strongly advice every foreigner against buying any property in Phuket, unless you are willing to risk losing it all. It's like Russian roulette and if things go wrong, don't expect any help from the authorities.

If anything, they will fleece you for even more by saying they can help. This is the "helping police" scam.

It is obvious that there is no social will to protect the assets of foreigners on Phuket, regardless of what the law says.

Posted by Herbert on September 29, 2015 20:40

"We will soon launch the C.U.P. community and try create a body of people requiring justice. - Colin Vard

Colin, not only have you and your daughter Jesse displayed amazing bravery and resilience by challenging the entrenched, dogmatic status quo of corruption in a potentially deadly arena, what is possibly even more impressive is that you're now advocating for hundreds (being conservative) of other farang victims of property fraud and theft in the "Land of Smiles."

Ironically, the very country that indirectly supports such massive amounts of scams of foreigners could also benefit from your and Jesse's actions, as many Thais have also been ripped off in similar fashion and are helpless to act. The Domino Effect is alive and well. Nefarious nature knows no race or creed, but certainly farang are more inherently at risk and easier targets in many cases.

Since you were one of the first brave farang to "go over the top" (by dint of protesting in front of the Police Station, by absorbing all the threats you have incurred and are now trying to create a list of similar victims that are reluctant or scared to do what you have done) - they will follow, just like the Canadian soldiers did at Vimy Ridge in WW1 - followed the first few brave souls to go over the top of the trenches; they did what the brave French, British, Australian and American soldiers failed to do. That's when they say that Canada really became a country on the international stage, some fifty one years after becoming a nation.

To be honest, I thought you and Jesse were almost crazy to challenge the severe status quo in the Kingdom, but you stood up to be counted - and that's rare these days, as the world cowers in the Middle East, and the west braces itself.

It takes the bravest to break the ice in Siam. But if you don't stand up sometimes to be counted like you did, people will run roughshod right over you - and you'll be steamrolled right into the ground!

To wit, Alan and Chutima just got through several rounds in the ring relatively unscathed, and have been instrumental in fomenting proactive, positive changes in media transparency in the (mostly wonderful) country.

But Thailand needs to remember that as one of the top tourist destinations in the world (garnering a goodly part of its GNP from tourism), it needs to clean up its act - particularly in regards to the inherent safety of foreigners and its citizens - AND the chronic, rampant, generally unaddressed corruption at the highest levels - as in the way hundreds like Colin and Jesse Vard got treated.

After all, they invested in the country in good faith by purchasing property there - only to be scammed to the teeth.

Moreover, they're the type of people who fight for other people's justice as much as their own. That's very rare in this age of me-first entitlement.

But standing up and facing adversity like they have builds character; as a result their fight is a cause well worth supporting - and that's the bottom line.

Posted by farang888 on September 29, 2015 22:56

Before anybody decides to travel to, or invest in Phuket, they should ask themselves whether they should spend their money in a place that is so blatantly corrupt. A place that offers no legal protection for the foreigner and covers up and stifles any attempt at exposing these corrupt people holding positions of power.

In both cases mentioned here, lawyers, officials and bankers are up to their necks in what is just pure criminal fraud. Yet, no police action, no Government inquiry and no independent checking of the lawyers deeds.

It seems perfectly clear nobody cares and nobody wants to be seen taking the side of a foreigner against a local. To me this is a place I don't want to visit and don't want to see prosper, because if it does, there will be only more of this happening once others see how easy it is to get away with it.

All these cases do is just reinforce the concept that Thailand has two legal systems. One for the poor and uneducated and one for the rich and connected. Being rich and connected assures you that even if prosecuted, you can drag a case on for years and years until your opponent either dies or goes broke. That's if you simply don't buy a verdict in your favour.

The only way these cases will be settled is if Thailand gets enough negative publicity and needs to save face. It's always about the perception here - never the reality.

Posted by Arun Muruga on September 29, 2015 22:59

The accounts of British traders about Phuket in the last century, match entirely with what some journalists have been saying over the last few years and Alan Morison has to be congratulated for tackling the Phuket property issue.

Actually the problem is of course nationwide but Phuket seems to be well documented. In olde worlde English I think island of brigands might have been mentioned but some of the language I have read was much stronger.

Will the BBC change things? No. The best hope is that it can make more people aware..that is until they forget again. I have of course written about Colin Vard on numerous occasions for the Irish press.
This stuff does not really sink in to people back home, who assume Thailand is corrupt, and much prefer the islands, beaches, nightlife ??? and those things which will convince them to buy because they still know best. The fact that Thailand is corrupt even seems an attraction to many.

It's not a property problem. Nor is it likely Embassies will get involved. The roots are simply education and law. There are massive clean sweeps needed. Just no clean sweepers so to speak. Can anyone here even a whisper of this being on anyone's agenda. Education has recently regressed not progressed.

Posted by Andrew Drummond on September 30, 2015 00:08

Colin, the situation you report is truly terrible....I think as Westerners we just do not thing like that as our countries are far more developed in applying the law. I would never invest anything in Thailand that I could lot afford to lose, so I only have a motorbike, sad but true everything else is rented. I left in July and don't think I will be back.

Posted by I am with you on September 30, 2015 01:17

Discover Thainess

very good advise.

But it's not that often that people invest in Thailand in such enetrprises in which they would never invest home - to some extent that figures are lower here, and at home they are outpriced, and don't participate at that market, and simply don't understanding it and how things should be handled - then they make a chain of foolish decisions, and, even when a full set of civil law remedies, targeted on consumer protection, is available - instead of doing just that and timely, they go to "governor, police, media " etc. - as their lack experience even at home, make them unfit for investment. When you come to a bank willing to invest into shares or other securities, then you'll get full appraisal of your risk profile - what can and what can't be oferred to you, incl. not to offer products that you don't understand.
Here we on regular occasion see people who makes investment overseas in real estate without engaged lawyer, and don't understand that civil cases should be tried in court, often in few instances , and during many years - not in one step in police station or any similar arrangement.
But the best if they would understand and calculate out their options before they put money in, at least to know that lawyers' fee to big extent are not-refundable here on positive outcome, and that good lawyer, who speaks English, will cost roughly the same as in the West.

Surely, I didn't mean here cases of Ian and Colin.

Posted by Sue on September 30, 2015 04:07

Terrible stories but I am very glad that Phuketwan, Andrew Drummond, Ian and Colin & BBC's Jonathan Head are all raising awareness.

It does seem that Falangs are particularly vulnerable but of course many Thai consumers also fall victim to scams such as buying properties off the plan that are never built.

I take it that when Andrew Drummond referred to stories from British traders "last century" he probably meant to refer to the 19th century?

I see that one can even lose a deposit when renting a property but it certainly much less risky than buying. The advice I have heard and read from expats over the brief period of 15 years has consistently been RENT DON'T BUY.

I have even read this advice as being referred to as THAI PROPERTY 101.

Cheers

Posted by Ian Yarwood on September 30, 2015 11:50

Thank you Farang 888 it is words of encouragement like yours that keeps us ticking over and allows us to help others. Whenever the light at the end of the tunnel dims and disappears I log on to our Justice for Jessie Facebook page and gather great strength from the unconditional support and encouragement that oozes from the many many Thai???s and foreigners who support us. We get up to 25,000 positive hits a day and thankfully the few initial dissenter???s have long since disappeared. But it is when people comment that we are starting to make a noticeable difference on Phuket it is most gratifying.

Not long ago on our Facebook page we dealt with the greatest blight on Phuket that is the fatally flawed Jolly Roger ???Sale with Right of Redemption????? conduit. Here lies the root of so many of Phuket???s problems; Illegal moneylenders targeting and entrapping unsuspecting Thai???s many in relationships with foreign men. A compounding debt that starts at 100,000 Baht can with illegal monthly interest rates of up to 30% quickly reach 1 million Baht.

And you are absolutely correct the corruption on Phuket affects Thai???s as well. 3 months ago in the Phuket Governors office I spoke with an old Muslim lady who was in tears. She was filing a complaint against illegal Phuket moneylenders. She agreed a ???Sale with Right of Redemption????? for 50,000 Baht to cover her daughters wedding and transferred ownership of her land to the illegal moneylenders as security. This of course being the normal modus operandi. She repaid the monthly installments according to the schedule but instead of the debt decreasing it increased until she soon owed over 500,000 Baht. The illegal moneylenders with the help of the land office took her land and home valued at 2.5 million Baht. When she told the court that her husband would give evidence the following day of the illegal moneylenders threats and violence they killed him? And she ended up in jail.

Everybody living in Phuket or thinking of living in Phuket needs to grasp the reality not the dream. Only a few weeks ago by sheer chance I went into the governments DBD companies office in Phuket and the Director handed me a document in which the power of attorney over my company had been passed from me to a Ranong lawyer? A man I never met. Once again through forged signatures. If I had not by chance met with the Director the day before in the Governors office I would have lost control of my company and would not have known until it was too late. It is otherworldly scary.

The criminals in Phuket many of whom wear uniforms have the will and the way to destroy your life. The law is a commodity sold to the highest bidder. Justice an illusion. Every day fraud is being carried out with the full support of the islands administration and judicial system. The Police are openly racist and corrupt. Censored it seems not for their crimes but for being caught. Money laundering is just another service provided by Phuket banks. If you can steal it? They will conceal it! It seems to me that Phuket lawyers take hypocritical oaths and are extremely incompetent or totally corrupt! But from what I hear we have curbed their enthusiasm! And the Phuket banks too.

Every day on the Justice for Jessie Facebook page I have people contacting me with shocking tales of woe. You mention the bravery of the Canadian soldiers in the Battle of Vimy Ridge? I saw the movie and it was indeed an inspiring episode in Canadian history. I mention it because yesterday a Canadian man contacted me. He had his hotel stolen. Not long after another Canadian a woman messaged me to say she had her brewery stolen. Both had their signatures forged. There is no defense to such fraudulence. Today a Dutchman and a Frenchman both contacted me after being cheated by their wives and feared for their lives. In the past people would run away but we want people to stay and fight the corruption. They are not alone.

That is why we want to set up the C.U.P Committee on Facebook: Clean Up Phuket. A body of concerned Thai and foreign investors who will go toe to toe with the Phuket authorities and demand that the laws be clarified and upheld regarding investment on Phuket. The Governor???s office can???t on one hand invite investment and on the other suggest that foreign ownership can be considered a circumvention of Thai law. Opinions seem to hold more sway than the law itself on Phuket.

We will try and form a committee to pool our experiences to identify the rogue lawyers, police, land and bank officials. Already certain policemen and law firms have been identified. But this will only work if we work together.

Thank you Farang 888 and thank you and everybody else who has contributed positively to the discussion. Anybody who has encountered problems and would like to get involved with C.U.P please message me on Justice for Jessie.

And a big hand to Phuket Wan for taking on this thorny subject. Once again they show courage in the face of adversity.

Posted by Colin Vard on October 1, 2015 11:58

Indeed Arun, but perception equals reality - no?

Look at the Jews and The Palestinians - a Culture Clash and philosophical dichotomy of deadly proportions going on 2,000 plus years, give or take.
They perceive reality in different ways. How's that working for them so far?

But what does this have to do with Farang losing property in Phuket through nefarious means you may ask?

Because Thai authorities, to date - PERCEIVE that they need not interfere in foreigner on foreigner crimes in their country. That's why there are still so many illegal expat Boiler Rooms still operating with impunity, ripping off expats in Thailand and people all over the globe.
But simply saying MY BPEN RAI and offering up one of over 40 Thai-style smiles doesn't cut it anymore!

Thailand is slowly finding out you can't have your cake (25 million tourists annually - whose cash provides a goodly percentage of their GNP) and eat it too - unless they will be the first to manage that feat! Wow. Marie Antoinette Syndrome?

ISIS and the west? Now there's an exact 180 degree dichotomy of perception and reality. But we don't go there now, do we? - according to the "Leader of the Free World" Obama. Unfortunately they're going have to go back to Iraq and the region - else a catastrophic reality will be forced on all of us - so brace yourselves. And it's all down to the vagaries of "perception."

Nasty stuff that, when perception is twisted to meet the needs of the nefarious people in Phuket who will steal your property, label you a sucker and tell you to "F" off - or those whose religion has "told" them to murder indiscriminately, without a shred of empathy or remorse.

The bottom line is, when you can easily pull off the former with impunity the latter is right around the corner folks! - that's why everyone has a stake in this, and people like Colin Vard and Ian Rance merit tangible support from their governments, honest solicitors and the public.

Posted by farang999 on October 1, 2015 22:47

This should be pinned on top as let say hot news. Comments interesting as they come. Doomsayers proofen wrong by these two. Now that Facebook is used by over 50 year olds, Phuket will discover it's kind of "Wutb??rger", who will not be silenced easy. Having time, anger and the means with their sharing platform, time of easy prey is gone. With enough noise even the embassies have to get involved.

Posted by Lena on October 1, 2015 23:53

The squeaky wheel gets the grease Lena, and ONLY when these important issues become a political hot potato will the governments jump on the "bandwagon" - last as always.

The embassies are reactive, not proactive. It should be the other way around.

Only political pressure and negative press stimulates them to act, when they may lose votes.

Posted by farang888 on October 2, 2015 07:31

I have sympathy for anyone being cheated out of their money but as previously posted, why buy when you can rent so cheap and move around. If you have a wife/lady and she doesnt like the idea because nothing is in her name, then this should be the alarm bell that serves as your departure for your associations !

Posted by LES on October 4, 2015 01:50

Sorry to say, my own experience of the legal system, lawyers and notaries in Belgium, allows me to say that it is no better in a so called developed country such as Belgium. Unfortunately my son became the victim of the advice from the lawyer to take 40% after years of delays. We had no money to get another lawyer, who shall also be paid up front before doing anything. The notary managing the property proved to be proud of delaying for 2 and 1/2 years the payment of the reparations of a big house for 380000 Euros or at that time 16 million baht. In the meantime bankruptcy of my son's company and loss of a flat which was the collateral in bank loans to the equivalent of 10 million baht.
Bo

Posted by Bo on October 4, 2015 19:44

Sorry to hear that Bo. I've been burned badly too - but it's better than losing your health - by a country mile.
Best

Posted by farang888 on October 5, 2015 08:20

Do not buy off plan scams have been going on for many years and there are news articles about them regularly .
Buyer beware or bad luck if you fall for the scams there is nothing new about them
If you are not permanently living in Phuket or do not have the available cash just rent, rents are cheap and will be for a long time with the oversupply of properties for rent and sale.
If you decide to buy land can only be owned by a Thai national, do not believe any one who tells you differently even a so called lawyer.
You can buy in your Thai partners name and have a lease on the property (maximum 30 years) which is legal, or you can go the company way which I personally do not believe is legal.
The majority of people I know who have purchased property have done so in their Thai partners name and all of these people have long term relationships and usually were together for years before buying a property.
Personally I would not buy a condo after a few years quite a few start looking like slums, the same goes for terrace housing, people cannot afford to or will not maintain them and it devalues your property no matter how well you maintain it.
If you are single and have no commitments just rent, no reason to buy

Posted by peter allen on October 19, 2015 08:40

My wife and I purchased a Apartment at Phuket Palace off the plan during construction 1990,we never received Title as Apartment was sold at least twice, was informed that Developer and Manager were arrested, contacted a Lawyer in Patong and have not heard a word since. We lost nearly 1 Million Baht and fortunately were making monthly payments which ceased when we were advised of scam.

Posted by Nudenut on October 29, 2015 22:18