''Why are these people allowed to come here from Sweden when Thailand is just a developing country? We cannot afford to support beggars from rich countries.''

piff.
It cost you nothing. You don't give benefits or pay medical bills so what are you talking about. It's not like she claimed asylum as many do in so called 'Rich countries' where benefits, housing and medical assistance is given.

Get your facts straight.

Editor: We are quoting a Thai policeman, and we believe we quoted him accurately. Your comment has no relevance.

.

Posted by terry jones on May 31, 2010 02:33

Terry Jones was obviously attacking the Thai policeman's attitude, not phuketwan. Your response was harsh and unwarranted.

Also, why illustrate a story about a poor woman who died "without money, friends or dignity" with a photograph of a smiling consul?

Editor: We admit to being abrupt at times in responses but seldom harsh or unwarranted. The policeman had a point. There is no comparison to the treatment of asylum seekers, which is a different matter entirely. Vast numbers of asylum seekers are turned away around the world and those that are allowed to land are not exactly treated well. Some are driven to attempt suicide. As we said, it's not relevant. Aren't the rich supposed to help the poor, not the other way around? On Phuket, medical resources are severely stretched. This poor woman was apparently being treated without payment. Would that happen in Europe, the US or Australia? Not likely. The smiling consul first raised this issue two years ago in an interview with Phuketwan, so we used her photo in preference to a lifeless photo of the deceased.

Posted by Dave Taylor on May 31, 2010 10:40

Thank-you for determining that this poor woman died without dignity. I found it to be very useful and effective in getting the story across.
By the way, as someone who reads on a regular basis, I assumed that Terry Jones' comment was directed at the police, and not you. You should do the same.

Posted by Jeff Hastings on May 31, 2010 11:00

@ Editor

You seem to have a problem with reading! Terry Jones' comment is absolutely relevant - your comment is not!

Best regards,
Jakob - I don't mind having my name on as I don't need to hide behind a title.

Editor: Jakob, You may have missed my full reply, in response above, which is my take on Terry's comment. The other points you raise are inappropriate on a thread about a tragic death.

Posted by Jakob on May 31, 2010 12:01

@ Editor,

I haven't missed anything as I did read your full reply.

The fact still stands; the Thai police officer's comment was foolish and not anyway near justified. If she was such a huge burden as he claims they could have placed her on the first plane, sent her back to Sweden and sent the bill to the Swedish authorities - they didn't!

"Would that happen in Europe, the US or Australia? Not likely."

In Scandinavia they would get treated first and second asked to pay the bill - same as what would happen for most white skinned people in Thailand - but with the difference that a Thai hospital will keep you as a hostage until you pay up!

"The other points you raise are inappropriate on a thread about a tragic death."

Have you adopted the usual Thai double-standards?

Best regards,
Jakob

Editor: You appear to be putting a case for Swedish beggars to be allowed to run free in Thailand. That's crazy. If you'd read the previous Phuketwan articles about this case, you'd know that Thai police cannot put people on planes. Swedish officials usually try to find a relative to fund a flight back to Sweden. They don't want the person to be a cost to the Swedish government . . . yet you are happy to let Swedes be a burden to innocent Thais and the Thai health system. Your wild generalisation about ''Thai double-standards'' is irrelevant.

Posted by Jakob on May 31, 2010 12:54

@ Editor,

No, I did not put a case for Swedish beggars to run free in Thailand. You are twisting my words.


Best regards,
Jakob

PS: I will not continue this discussion as your way of cutting out relevant parts from people's comments is ruining the chance of a proper discussion anyway.


Editor: Jakob, back in January, a Swedish embassy official told us: ''This is the fourth time Mr Lundquist has done this, and it's the third time for Ms Strand.'' So even when the couple were put on planes, they kept coming back, making all your baseless slurs about Thai police unfair and off the topic.

Posted by Jakob on May 31, 2010 13:52

@ Editor

Thai beggars and scam artists are roaming around in Sweden, to the detriment of all honest and law abiding Thais who have found a new home in Sweden. They will be treated in the hospital, and fed. If repatriation is determined they will be put on the plane with a ticket that will not be billed to Thailand.

I see no one putting a case for Swedish beggars to be allowed to run free in Thailand. Maybe it would be better if all Swedish people stopped roaming Thailand, taking their money elsewhere. I'm sure the tourist business would be overjoyed.

Editor: Some Thais are beggars in Sweden, so Swedes should have reciprocal rights here? The policeman's point is that Thailand, as a relatively poor country, shouldn't have to support beggars from rich countries. Nothing you have written has addressed his point, least of all your final remark. I suspect most Swedes will see the truth in the policeman's comment.

Posted by Nicke on May 31, 2010 14:01

@ Editor

I salute the compassion of this sentence:
"Even in death, beggars such as the sad-case Swede will be a drain on Thailand's finances."

Bottom line: We just want yer moneys

Editor: You cynicism is not justified by the article, or life in Thailand, for that matter.

Posted by Nicke on May 31, 2010 14:27

Came across the link to this news from another source. After reading the comments I can just agree with you guys criticizing both the news and the editor.

Why are you so defensive in your approach regarding the criticism of the article? As a (semi)/ professional journalist you should pay attention to your readers response and feedback, which you do in a way, but please get off your high horse will ya....

Editor: No problem with feedback or criticism, except when it's inaccurate and designed to perpetuate stereotypes and myths. Like it or not, we won't allow unfair or unjustifiable criticism to pass without a response. Plenty of sites simply kill critical comments . . . maybe their horses are too low.

Posted by Emanuel on May 31, 2010 14:39

I also wonder, why Thailand does not put them on an empty seat in the next plane to sweden and stamp the passport invalid for Thailand and simply do not let them in again.

As they committed serious crimes, by not paying hotel bills, that is intentional fraud, just deport them. I remember being sorry for them once, when you wrote their Christmas story, I am cured.

They should work for a living. Cm'on, she was from Sweden, that is a friendly country to its people. That is not too hard there.

Posted by Lena on May 31, 2010 15:58

I would just like to make a comment about the Swedish lady and or anyone else who is in that situation. She didn't cause any real harm to anyone, and it sounds like to me, there are more Xenophobes here than people who actually care about the well being of people.

If someone breaks the law in Thailand, they can be put in prison or deported. If she was breaking the law, the police could have done something about it, but refused to do anything, and the policeman comes out with a comment like that.

Editor: Tbs, In my experience, especially post-tsunami and again with aid to Haiti, Thailand regularly proves it is populated by caring citizens, as Sweden especially can attest. Can the same be said with honesty about the expat community? This woman and her companion allegedly ripped off low-income Thais repeatedly, day in, day out, for months. I am surprised that more expats do not find this unfair. It's plain that Swedes at quite senior levels of government, both in Thailand and in Sweden, knew what was happening, but were unable to solve the problem. Yet you lay blame at the feet of the local police. How fair is that? And do you know this policeman well enough personally to speak with authority about his education level? If not, then guesswork seems . . . well, unreasonable to say the least. So I've cut that particular section, just to prevent it being viewed as xenophobia . . .

Posted by Tbs on May 31, 2010 19:04

Compare and contrast:

"We christened them the Scamdinavians".

"Editor: No problem with feedback or criticism, except when it's inaccurate and designed to perpetuate stereotypes and myths."

A. What a deeply unpleasant - and possibly racist to Scandinavians - title to bestow on people.
B. It also instigates a myth/stereotype, which you have then perpetuated. Hope you don't expect another "Scoop of the Year" award for it.

Alan, some on Phuket feel that you're becoming something of a hypocrite.

Editor: Calling this couple 'Scamdinavians' is a simple piece of word-play that most people find appropriate. To draw any other conclusion, or to try to twist that to some broader significance, would be foolish or mischievous. Your usage of inflammatory terms such as racist and hypocrite is irresponsible and unfair.

Eva, some on Phuket feel you are becoming something of an over-reactor.

Posted by Eva Johannes on June 2, 2010 15:27

Eva's right, you're wrong. That's the simple part.

Wordplay involving nationalities, religions, cultures etc is a stage on the way to racism. Increasingly - and working for an anti-racism organisation, I do know - the trend is for even low-level "simple wordplay" on ethnic types, cultures (as above) to be unacceptable. You may be a hypocrite and that's an opinion, but if I call you a British/American/Australian hypocrite, then I am using racist terminology. And no, it's not political correctness gone mad (your style is rather ... tabloid, after all), but common decency and respect.

And who are the "most people" you refer to, who apparently find it appropriate? Another generalisation?

Editor: You haven't yet established your credentials as a worker for an anti-racism organisation. Which organisation is that, Paul? Phuketwan happens to be an anti-racism organisation, too. What's more, over the years we've found that it's never language that proves to be the cause of the problem, but the manner in which people abuse and misuse it.

It's odd that the newly-minted word was first included in a headline in January, and yet we haven't seen cases of misuse and abuse, except for Eva, and now you.

Let me respond to a couple of things you've said, Paul.

''Wordplay involving nationalities, religions, cultures etc is a stage on the way to racism.''

Wordplay is only ''a stage on the way to racism'' when it is used by racists.

''You may be a hypocrite and that's an opinion, but if I call you a British/American/Australian hypocrite, then I am using racist terminology.''

No, that's not racist terminology. If it isn't true, it could be categorised as bigotry, but it's not racism. (But then if it is true, it's neither bigotry nor racism.)

It would only be racist to say ''You are a white/black/yellow British/American/Australian hypocrite.'' In the context of the criticism, race is irrelevant. By mentioning color, it becomes apparent that the speaker is a racist.

We've talked to Scandinavians quite often about this couple since they first came to notice, and you'd have thought that if people found the headline tag a problem, at least one of them would have said something. It appears they can tell the difference between harmless wordplay and racism.

It's good to know that you and Eva are keeping a careful watch, though.

Posted by Paul Loughran on June 2, 2010 16:14

Why you always saying that Thailand is a poor country? To me it seems the locals mostly drive the more expensive cars than the foreigners....

Editor: Well, Richard, that's probably because the expats waste their money on other things.

Posted by Richard on June 5, 2010 05:15

So far this looks like a match won by the readers - you Alan, comes across as a man who has lost track of common decency. It's kind of sad to watch really.

Why not just admit that you made a poorly worded and biased article, delete it and write a better one? You got the power to correct it - no other can do that.

Being at fault is OK - knowing that you are at fault and staying willingly in that position is ignorance which does not suit you.

Editor: I've seen nothing yet to persuade me that harmless word play is anything except harmless wordplay. And, James, you say the article is ''poorly worded and biased'' but you don't offer a single thought or idea to explain why. That's not a persuasive argument.

Posted by James Stepwell on June 6, 2010 09:18

@ The editor;
So by other words you are saying that the Thais are wasting their money on big cars? Or are you just trying to make an excuse for them?
Talking about an irrelevant comment.
Pot; meet kettle!

Editor: You are offering an interpretation of what I said. I am content with what I actually wrote.

Ignorance, meet foolish reaction.

Posted by James Stepwell on June 6, 2010 12:50

Only been reading this site for a few months but after reading a lot of the responses you've made in those months, it just seems your becoming more and more opinionated without proper opinions, waspish and filled with bile. You appear to encourage debate by having a comments box but rip into pretty much everyone believing utterly, by what you write, that you are the only person who is right. I feel sorry for you.

Editor: Thanks, Sally. I take it you don't have a view that isn't personal, twisted and deeply misconceived? Nothing to add to the world's store of knowledge?

Posted by Sally James on June 7, 2010 14:57

No need to throw more pies, but what is the current status with her, she still awaits someone to take care of the body ?

When I did read the first post about her death, we discussed already to help her with her last journey and don't let it go like this.

Is there anything the community can do for her ?

Editor: Anders, Ms Strand's ashes should be back in Sweden, with her daughter. The mystery is how she could be left to live as she did, with both Thai and Swedish officials unable to find a way to help.

Posted by Anders on June 13, 2010 22:19

The Police and Phuket Immigration knew about the problem and ignored it.

I see it very clear, if police knew about the problem, why did they not take the responsibility to uphold the law and deport her ?

Quote of the day:
I don't see the point of being a human being if you're not going to be responsible to your fellow human beings. Selfishness thefts away the human and reduces you to just a being. ~Terri Guillemets

Posted by Anders on June 13, 2010 23:37

You should be ashamed and lose face for this vindictive tirade on a innocent elderly lady tourist. Your implication that rich countries are in conspiracy and would send travelers to developing countries such as Thailand as tourists to spend their money, and for what ever bad luck befalls these people, either
they are not careful with their money and run out,or their money is sometimes stolen by local criminal Thai nationals or simply lost while traveling. At this point you point a finger at some kind of
conspiracy to send these disguised tourists who have now become the despised poor foreign beggar terrorist tourist to as you put it poor developing country of Thailand to eat the country dry, use up all the medical resources and pose an ugly reminder to the general Thai population that people from all walks of life run up against some bad luck even if they are from a wealthy country.
You show no compassion or respect for a tragic death of an elderly lady, regardless of what she ended up, she was a person who may have some family back in her home country and even if she doesn't that does not give you reporting license to pour your venomous words of hatred in nearly every paragraph of your slanted and poorly reported article. I see you have a partner or advisor "By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian".
You both should be ashamed and experience a huge loss of face, and be plagued by 100 hungry ghosts for your hate article. No matter how this elderly lady ended up at the end of her life you are Buddhist you should know
better to show respect and find a more respectable angle for your report. I would suggest you go to the local temple and pray that you do not come to the same end that Miss Gabriella Rose-Marie Strand experienced at such a difficult age.
I hope your editor has the jai to write an apology for your inability to write a decent and respectful local human interest story. You certainly milked the "Scamdinavian" for all it was worth. I think you also owe an apology to the local Scandinavian Counsel General for implying the country somehow is scamming the Thai government.

Signed,
Instant Karma

Posted by Anonymous on July 19, 2010 19:21