Sue Singapore, Thailand Advised in Splash for Cash Scandal
By Alan Morison Wednesday, March 19, 2014
PHUKET: ''Sue Singapore for stealing Songkran'' was the message emanating from some parts of Thailand's tourism industry today in the splash-for-cash scandal.
Singapore's plan to make the most profit possible from Thailand's traditional New Year water festival on April 12-13 was revealed by Phuketwan yesterday.
Tickets for the H2O music festival, which is using ''the largest water festival party in Singapore'' as a drawcard, go for $35 to $75 for each day of the two-day event
While the water festival is also celebrated in neighboring countries, Songkran is the ''marketing brand'' associated with Thailand.
For Singapore to hold a ''Celebrate Songkran 2014'' festival in advance of the real Songkran in Thailand would be a suitable promotion.
To hold a Singapore Songkran on the same weekend as the much-loved annual festival in Thailand is to steal the concept.
Reader feedback to Phuketwan indicates that some Singaporeans who might otherwise visit Thailand for Songkran will stay at home to enjoy the festival in the island state.
Other expats on Phuket say they might visit Singapore to see how Songkran compares in a place noted for cleanliness and a lack of corruption.
The Phuketwan article certainly made a splash. Tourism Authority of Thailand Deputy Governor for Tourism Products, Vilaiwan Twichasri, told the Bangkok Post that legal action could follow.
She said she would hold talks with officials at the Department of Intellectual Property, Ministry of Commerce and Ministry of Culture to study intellectual property rights.
The TAT could even take legal steps to prevent member states of Asean from conducting and organising traditional cultural activities based on Thai arts and culture, including Songkran and Loy Kratong.
Meanwhile, as the Singapore appropriation shows, private individuals can make a profit from taking and using cultural ideas that are supposed to project purity and community values.
Singapore has enough going for it in terms of its tourist attractions.
Songkran on Phuket and in Thailand may not be perfect, but at least until now it has been free from excessive private profit-takers.
And the point should be made that if Lee Kwan Yew had made a serious attempt to preserve Singapore's own culture instead of putting concrete over everything, the island nation wouldn't need to pillage from others.
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Comments
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This seems ridiculous and typical of the Thai attitude. No way can this be termed stealing. Songkran is not something patented by Thailand and similar festivals are held in many SE Asian countries. What we will get in Singapore is a coherently and well organized event without the hundreds of road deaths and thousands of injuries associated with the Thai festival. To sue on cultural grounds only proves that there is loss of face to some Thais.
I, together with the family are considering going but looking at the website tickets are not yet available.
Posted by
Pete
on
March 19, 2014 09:30
Editor Comment:
There are plenty of precedents for cultural theft in the region and only someone with preexisting prejudices against Thailand would fail to see that Singapore is guilty and doing the wrong thing.
I can't see why Singaporeans would want to welcome in the Thai New Year?
Posted by
FrankieV
on
March 19, 2014 10:13
Editor Comment:
Because there's money in it.
Cultural festival...mmm, ok, I guess the Thai Government should ban "Christian" cultural festivals, ie Christmas and Easter. I for one would be all for banning then, but hey, they are good money earners, besides, Thais residing in Singapore have a right to celebrate Songkran, it's nice of the Singaporeans to help out. :)
Posted by
Laurie Howells
on
March 19, 2014 10:26
Editor Comment:
Religious festivals are clearly different. Retailers all over the world celebrate Christmas.
Many European countries celebrate songkran. What's the big deal? And saying that legal action could follow is a bit dull. They can not even force their own people to wear a helmet.
Posted by
Charles
on
March 19, 2014 11:05
Editor Comment:
How much do the European countries you've failed to name charge to participate? Or could it be that Thai citizens residing in those countries actually organise the ''Songkrans?''
Comparisons with helmet-wearing show you have trouble thinking in a straight line, Charles.
@Ed, only if you believe the rest of the world doesn't include, Muslims or Jews, and I guess your readers could come up with more. But hey, as I said, nice of the Singaporeans to help expat Thais celebrate..
Posted by
Laurie Howells
on
March 19, 2014 11:19
Editor Comment:
Retailers in Israel and the Middle East don't deck their windows in holly and spruik the spending celebration? I'm astonished. Buddhist countries must be different.
Have it your way Ed. (You always do). Don't forget that the Thai Grinch stole Christmas and the Gregorian New Year for commercial purposes.
Posted by
Pete
on
March 19, 2014 11:34
Editor Comment:
Sure, but then Christmas is a commercial festival. Songkran is not, at least not yet.
Why do Thai's celebrate Chinese New Year?
Because a lot of money is made and who makes all the money from the sales of the water shooters?
Posted by
Stu
on
March 19, 2014 12:09
Editor Comment:
Water shooters fall a little short of $35 or $75 and the Thais celebrate Chinese New Year because many of their forbears were from China.
The TAT might scan the US priority watch list for property right infringement and see two ASEAN countries Indonesia and Thailand are the proverbial pot & kettle.
Posted by
gee
on
March 19, 2014 12:11
Here are a few examples of European places where they celebrate songkran, especially for you,ED, because you don't know too much about the world. Belgium in mechelen city. Holland, amsterdam (they even have a website : songkran.nl ) Germany, in Hannover city. They even celebrate songkran in Hollywood, that's in the states, ED... And rest assure, every party you want to attend, you will have to get your wallet out.
Posted by
Charles
on
March 19, 2014 12:20
Editor Comment:
So they're not community events but for profit, Charles. Well then they're water festivals, not ''Songkran.'' And if they use the word for profit, they too are in breach of cultural copyright. Or perhaps Europeans are just more easily separated from their cash for no good reason.
Songkran is even, originally, Thai!
Come on Alan, even you know that!
Posted by
paul
on
March 19, 2014 12:24
Editor Comment:
Er, yes. Originally Thai.
@ Charles
Songkran.nl is the website of a Thai restaurant, nothing to do with the festival. But of course, in many, many cities worldwide songkran is celebrated by the Thais living there , together with friends and family. And of course sometimes it is organised as a commercial event. But none of those events have the grandeur that the Singaporeans are trying to attach to it. So it seems quite obvious that they are trying to gain commercially from this traditional event.
Posted by
stevenl
on
March 19, 2014 12:42
One of the unkindest steals was by the Australian media at the 2012 Olympics Ed? Australia had one gold medal and New Zealand 3. Australia's sporting self-esteem had been surpassed so the newspapers changed the names of the teams to either AusZealand or Team Oceania to avoid embarrassment. Now that's a steal as well as bad sportsmanship. That is pillaging from another country. As a media man I suppose you feel proud, but judging by the comments here only you think that Songkran was a steal.
Posted by
Pete
on
March 19, 2014 12:45
Editor Comment:
You are wildly off-topic, Pete. It's an irrational argument. Guessing what I think is a new low.
ah Alan, once agian you are not able to either belive or accept the word of others.... do some research into the origins of this water festival & drop the arrogance. It wont serve you well in gaol!
Posted by
paul
on
March 19, 2014 12:49
Editor Comment:
Switching topics inappropriately seems to be the desperate resort of those who can't argue without pointing at someone's chest, paul. Shame on you.
Let's jump the bandwagon! I agree that it would be ridiculous to sue. Singapore might be doing the wrong thing. But Thailand will look like the whining little brother.
E.g. Oktoberfest is now a worldwide thing, Carnival is, and since when do people from all nationalities get excited about St Patrick's Day?
Globalization, added with any excuse to create a party, get drunk, and make some money.
It is what it is.
Posted by
Tinkerbell
on
March 19, 2014 12:50
Editor Comment:
Oktoberfest has always been a commercial event (beer is sold) and, as even I can deduce, the same applies to St Patrick's Day. Songkran is not about drunkenness and it would be sad if it was ruined, like Christmas has been, by profit-takers. Santa is a sell-out. Best not to have Songkran stolen. I'd like to see Thailand's community culture preserved without being tainted by Singapore's entrepreneurs. Their only interest is money.
I hope the SingSongkran is a success. There is plenty of money to be spread around SE Asia and if I were a travel agent, I would try to book some type of "Double Songkran, Double Happiness" trip.
FYI - I first read about Songkran back in 1991 and the book described it as a gentle pouring of water on the shoulders and hands. It sounded like a nice, relaxing time. About 10 years later I hit Thailand during Songkran Season and was awakened to powder in the face, little kids adding ice to water, water being thrown at people and full on water fights.
Unfortunately, in many tourist areas, Songkran in Thailand has become one big water fight with plenty of drinking and little or no cultural references. I don't see a problem with Singapore or any other area holding a big water fight/festival on the same weekend as Songkran in Thailand.
I looked at the Singapore website and it looks like plenty of Thai entertainers do not have a problem appearing in Singapore's Songkran celebration.
Posted by
me
on
March 19, 2014 13:23
Editor Comment:
Call it Singkran or Cashkran and there's no problem. Perhaps where the tourists go in Thailand the waterfight has become an appealing point but in many areas the tradition is maintained. Everything in the West is for sale. That's why there is no culture, only marketing.
Somehow, i feel that this has to do with Thaksin's visit to Singapore, as this is organized by a private company and not by Singapore tourist board itself. I can't help but feel that the real intention would be to provoke the Thai for the current political situation. Singapore government would never support such event as they have been stressing the importance of water conservation for years, they had to plead with Malaysian government to sell them water for years until recently, they are able to sustain the need without relying on foreign's supply. I would not believe this will turn out to be an annual event, true meaning of Songkran isn't about water fight even though 'most' Thai seems to have forgotten the tradition of Songkran. There is absolutely no need to dance to their music...
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 19, 2014 13:25
Well @Ed since you seem to know everything about all holidays some information - St. Patrick's is the festival of St. Patrick - the patron Saint of Ireland. It is both a cultural and religious holiday in Ireland. It is celebrated every year around the world by many people both Irish and no Irish. When they have parades around the world we dont moan about it and threaten to take legal action - instead we embrace it and use it as an opportunity to promote Ireland abroad.
Posted by
Ciaran
on
March 19, 2014 13:27
Editor Comment:
Sure. We all know the Irish are different. But so is this case, Ciaran. The Singaporeans are celebrating a rival ''Songkran in Singapore'', not promoting Thailand.
I have found a recent article by Singapore Straits time regarding water conservation. Please have a look
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/singapore-no-danger-water-shortage-conserving-water-still-important-ba
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 19, 2014 13:29
Not changing anything mate, and no desperation. If i wanted to point at your chest, I would be round to the Blog HQ to do it in person.
Go back do some research about the origins of Song Kran and learn some manners....
Posted by
paul
on
March 19, 2014 13:34
Editor Comment:
''do some research into the origins of this water festival & drop the arrogance. It wont serve you well in gaol!''
I know about manners, paul. And I choose my mates.
Here is a link to another forum that you can read how Singaporean feel about this event. (Bo liao means boring in "Singlish")
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 19, 2014 13:41
Editor Comment:
That forum doesn't seem very representative, Thai in Phuket. No point in linking.
Majority of Singaporeans have expressed their negative opinions regarding this event in several online forums, calling it boring and meaningless. It conflicts with the values of conserving water which their government has painstakingly instilled into Singaporeans mindset through countless of water saving campaigns.
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 19, 2014 14:02
OMG please, I'm a thai living in Singapore I'm so happy that they have this in Singapore as I have no time to go back to thailand. Singapore is very good to even celebrate, means they even appreciate us foriengers i'm glad. Sueing them is stupid , you are indirectly hurting all the thais here.
Posted by
lol
on
March 19, 2014 16:21
Apologies for posting twice in the same news thread...
I remember seeing some pictures from a Songkran Festival just outside of Khon Kaen. Tons of Thai people having a huge water fight in the middle of a muddy field and not a foreigner (that I could tell) in sight. The report from the person on the ground mentioned tons of Thai people drunk, causing problems and generally having a rowdy time.
If Thailand wants to protect the word "Songkran," then they need to do like the Olympics, trade mark the name and go after all who use the name without permission.
Posted by
me
on
March 19, 2014 19:41
Songkran is a term derived from the Sanskrit sa???kr????nti (or, more specifically, me???a sa???kr????nti). Refers to the traditional New Year celebrated in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries.
Songkran can also refer to the traditional New Year celebrated by the Dai people of Yunnan, China, and by the Tai Dam people of Northern Vietnam.
Posted by
Catherine
on
March 19, 2014 21:24
Some of you guys should cut Alan some slack.. the guy is helping shine a light on many things that annoy YOU in Thailand, but you still want to be the devil's advocate on general principle...easy to be a cyber bully eh?
Posted by
Dean
on
March 19, 2014 21:26
Oh I hope Thailand will try to sue Singapore. They will just end up with a big egg on their face but it will be very entertaining to watch the drama unfold.
Singapore is free to organize whatever festival they want and if they choose to charge for it, it's up to the visitors to decide if they feel it's worth paying or not.
Besides, the current water war that Songkran has deteriorated to in Thailand has nothing to do with the traditional values of it.
Posted by
ThaiMike
on
March 19, 2014 22:06
"And the point should be made that if Lee Kwan Yew had made a serious attempt to preserve Singapore's own culture instead of putting concrete over everything, the island nation wouldn't need to pillage from others."
Singapore's own culture? Do you even have the slightest knowledge of Singapore's history? Mr. Lee Kuan Yew is a well respected man, a great leader and key person behind success of Singapore for what is has become today. A selfless politician who truly care for the development and well beings of it's citizens.
Putting concrete over everything? Anyone who has been there would know there is much more "green" in the capital city compare to Bangkok.
And lastly, accusing Singapore as an island nation for "stealing" Songkran, calling this an act of pillaging from others over an event that is organized by a private company just shows what is the quality of reporter here at Phuketwan.
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 20, 2014 07:59
Editor Comment:
You seem to be just another confrontationalist, Thai in Phuket. To add value, you should try to tell us things we don't know. Lee Kwan Yew was a dictator who rebuilt Singapore from the ground up, making it a clean but clinical concrete city. The return of trees is relatively recent and commendable. Indeed, Lee Kwan Yew would be the first to tell you that Singapore has stolen good ideas from all over.
So one must assume that Thailand has some sort of "patent" on the name Songkran and associated celebration?
Certainly true that Thai governance has the patent on the ridiculous!The knock off capital of the world..hypocrisy? Sounds like a good excuse for a cast thousands boondoggle opportunity.
Posted by
david
on
March 20, 2014 08:34
Editor Comment:
Indonesia and Malaysia have sparred for years over the origins of their traditional dresses and dances. As we've suggested, all that Singapore needs to do is change the name from Songkran to Singkran.
@Ed
What is wrong with implementing good ideas and contribute to positive social welfare, economic development of a nation and its people? Why do you keep on emphasizing on the word "Steal" Do you have anything personal against Singapore government to the point that it has obscured your judgement to mention good ideas implementation is a negative act.
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 20, 2014 09:28
Editor Comment:
I thought you were the one making the point that this is a private event, although plainly, public space is involved. As a Thai, shouldn't you be concerned to see your culture misused for private gain? Nothing wrong with good ideas being borrowed, except this water fight is Singkran, not to be confused with Songkran. A bull run through the streets of Soi Bangla would also be a good idea, but you wouldn't call it Pamplona. You'd call it horny fun.
"To add value, you should try to tell us things we don't know."
For a start, Mr. Lee Kuan Yew's name is spelled as "Kuan" and not "Kwan" which you have incorrectly mentioned everytime.
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 20, 2014 09:47
Editor Comment:
It's been a long time since he held real power so we may have forgotten, but it's hardly deserves making your eleventh comment in the space of 24 hours. Are you just out to waste my time, Thai in Phuket?
Maybe a little of topic about Singapore, when they sort of "stealing" the songkran, but I would like to say, that the festival I've attended in Bangkok was really great!! Phuket is Phuket!! Thailand have fantastic people, but Phuket is special in many ways. Both good an bad. Everybody that lives here knows that. I wouldn't live here if the upsides wasn't bigger than the downsides! But at the same time, we all have a responsability to work and report about wrongdoings here!
Posted by
Mike
on
March 21, 2014 01:21
I can really understand the critics some people have against Thailand, but still don't forget, that those of you that are expats here, actually took the descision to move here! I really myself want justice and just treatment from officials, but it is what it is, and only the Thai people can change that. The Thai people are actually more and more tired of the injustice going around. There will be a change, but it will take time.
Posted by
Mike
on
March 21, 2014 01:32
Well...The water fight area is actualy free so no profit will be made from Thai culture.
You only pay if you want to assist to the music festival.
Posted by
Paul
on
March 21, 2014 11:48
In order to "steal" something, that something has to be owned by someone or something.
Songkran is not a registered trade mark nor is it exclusive to Thailand.
Far more correct would be to say a private operator in Singapore has copied the concept of Songkran celebrated in many countries, among others in Thailand and decided to create his version of it in Singapore. A fee will be charged to attend.
To call this action stealing is inflammatory and borderline libel.
Posted by
ThaiMike
on
March 21, 2014 12:30
Editor Comment:
That just goes to show how little you know about libel, ThaiMike, even if you clearly understand how to make an inflammatory comment. The issue of stealing the culture of neighbors is likely to now be ignited among Asean members, and that's a good thing. In this case, the potential economic damage inflicted by Singapore on Thailand and other countries is obvious, except perhaps to you. We hope a truce can be achieved. We suggest the answer is simply to rename the profit-taking Singapore venture Singkran. That way, there's no confusing the rip-off with the real thing.
Ed You're very good at suggesting things, like (a) Singkran (b) a beach authority, (c) a taxi call centre etc etc, but you are piss poor at actually doing anything about it.
Posted by
phonus balonus
on
March 21, 2014 13:23
Editor Comment:
Let me know what you think we should do, PB, or are you stuck for constructive ideas as usual?
Let me know what you think we should do, PB,
Advocate, lobby, knock on doors, petition, investigative journalism, that sort of thing.....
Posted by
phonus balonus
on
March 21, 2014 14:09
Editor Comment:
Er, thanks. Meanwhile, what will you be doing?
Er, thanks. Meanwhile, what will you be doing?
Working in an office in Hong Kong.
Posted by
phonus balonus
on
March 21, 2014 14:36
Editor Comment:
We're journalists, not activists, so we report the world as we see it and try to change it for the better. As we often already work from 5.30am to 11pm (most days) seven days a week, we have little extra time to spare. I suggest that you hire someone on Phuket to put your wishes into action.
And whom to file a lawsuit against? In my opinion,JBOZZ consultants and TJ Events are simply "PCO" appointed by an "end client" who may not be of Singapore origin while does appear to have substantial influence not only to be able to convince SRC to approve rental of Padang for this controversial event but to go against the SG Public Ultility Board's decades of water saving campaigns and make the Singaporean feel that this is a joke on their own PAP government to the extent that majority of them posted favourable comments in various online communities in favour of Thai to sue SG?
I guess we will never find out because the media is either too busy debating about Songkran/Singkran or "Mao Ruam" the whole Singapore nation as theif.
Posted by
Thai in Phuket
on
March 21, 2014 14:38
Maybe would have originally been intellectual property now subject to expiry of exclusive rights?
Posted by
Manowar
on
March 21, 2014 15:23
Thailand thinks the throwing of water is theft of there cultural asset good luck with suing on that if Singapore hold a blue moon party will they sue for that too.
Posted by
slickmelb
on
April 1, 2014 00:31
Pure madness. Whatever next the Vatican suing Thailand for the intellectual property theft of the commercial Christmas festival?
Posted by
Somsak Public Relations
on
April 6, 2014 09:14
Editor Comment:
Too late as usual, Somsak PR. Singapore has cancelled Singkran as a waste of precious water. Christmas has already been stolen by retailers.
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This seems ridiculous and typical of the Thai attitude. No way can this be termed stealing. Songkran is not something patented by Thailand and similar festivals are held in many SE Asian countries. What we will get in Singapore is a coherently and well organized event without the hundreds of road deaths and thousands of injuries associated with the Thai festival. To sue on cultural grounds only proves that there is loss of face to some Thais.
I, together with the family are considering going but looking at the website tickets are not yet available.
Posted by Pete on March 19, 2014 09:30
Editor Comment:
There are plenty of precedents for cultural theft in the region and only someone with preexisting prejudices against Thailand would fail to see that Singapore is guilty and doing the wrong thing.