This is absolutely disgusting..and I hope they track these two down and give them a taste of their own medicine

Posted by sky on April 22, 2014 05:15

I hope the bastards are caught and are given the treatment they deserve... a slow painful death from castration, but what has the canal got to do with the story?

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 22, 2014 06:02

Ed, far from a "primitive urge,"chemical castration is used today as well as surgical castration, by saying it's primitive you could upset Germany readers (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/feb/22/surgical-castration-sex-offenders-cpt-report), but these two guys didn't resist their urges. They brought fear, pain and suffering to the lady, so they deserve some back.

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 22, 2014 09:12

How sad is this, that poor poor woman, gosh will she ever recover from an ordeal like that..

I hope she does... my heart goes out to her..

So So Sad..

Posted by robert smith on April 22, 2014 09:46

what should happen to them ED ? introduce them to the bible ? or perhaps community service or what about pay a fine to the family of the victim ? i am with you Laurie ..give them a choice ,castration or death !! i am happy to facilitate either option ...

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 10:54

Abhorrent people! Not sure the picture was needed, the poor lady will have gone through more than enough without the indignity of having her picture published. Yes I am aware we cant see her face, but still

Posted by paul on April 22, 2014 11:18

my post is about the story at hand , a 5 months pregnant woman was raped by two men after being knocked from her motorbike ? what do u suggest Ed as a fitting punishment for this crime ? i told u mine already ...your reply was ridiculous imo

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 11:26

Ed, primitive, maybe, if that is what you want to call me, but at least I do not hold a "holier than thou" attitude. I only hope you never experience the years of grief, pain and humility that a rape victim suffers, some never recovering from the violence of the attack both physically and mentally. Attitudes change very quickly and some of us become primitive, when a close family member or friend suffers this sickening violation of their body.

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 22, 2014 12:09

Your anger is justified Laurie.

I can't presume to say what justice for the perpetrators of this heinous act deserve but I do believe that the criminal system in modern society is a failed experiment. Where I think you are wrong is that all too often we focus on the criminals and neglect the victims.

I am also not sure what can be done for this poor woman but that is where the focus should be, on doing whatever can be done to try and help her live as normal a life as possible. It's a big task, I don't think much can be done for anyone who could perform such an act.

Where I also respectfully disagree with you is that as unthinkable as this crime is, any punishment that we could dole out as fellow men would never fit the crime. Violence breeds violence, surely there are enough examples all around the world to prove that. I can only hope that whatever does happen to them they come to realize the full impact of what they have done, to really truly understand. That would be a fate far worse than castration and would be as close to just as I can imagine.

Posted by Martin on April 22, 2014 13:28

@ martin ... you say the criminal system in modern society is a failed experiment, then u disagree with Lauries idea of retribution , so what do u want to happen to them ? do you really think that two men that are capable of this crime would feel remorse ? actually i will answer for u ...yes they would at the time they are castrated ..the young lady will never feel safe knowing that these xxxx xxxx are still alive... do her and society a favor and terminate the xxxx...

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 13:47

Chris, I have no idea whether people who do things like this feel remorse. I can honestly say I don't know what goes on in the minds of other people. Just like I can't say what is best for the victim. I can say that corporal punishment/death is no deterrent to crime and it is not going to even the score.

I can't agree that at the time of punishment people regret or understand the impact of their criminal act. How do I know that they don't just regret being caught?

What I do know is that if they ever do come to understand the impact of what they have done that would be horrible. I also know that this woman and other victims of sexual abuse deserve the attention to be on their needs and that rather than venting my energy on wishing bad things for the criminals it is better spent on trying to find ways to make this woman's life better.

Whatever happens to these two will most likely not make up for what they have done and how would that even be measurable? How can you balance what you cannot comprehend? How can I judge someone who I cannot understand? Your suggestion is the age-old answer. Look around you, read the paper, watch the news, it's not working.

Posted by Martin on April 22, 2014 14:18

@martin ..capital punishment is final !! and in Thailand it is legal ..so lets hope that these xxxxxx xxxxxxx who cannot be rehabilitated are put to an early grave .....

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 15:28

Well at least they caught the bastards.

@ Ed and Martin - It's nice to read an educated point of view. Thank you. So sick of the old ignorant baying for blood.

Chris, did you just offer to murder them ? Are you right in the head ?

Best wishes to the lady and her family.

Posted by James on April 22, 2014 15:57

Why is we never read about women doing this kind of crime? Maybe it's time to seriously consider having less males babies born - we have the technology, it's been happening to female fetus for a generation now and what has it gotten us?

Posted by The Night Mare on April 22, 2014 16:53

James, it's because of people, who think as you do, that we have "bastards" like this running around. I'd like to see you "brave" enough to make your comments to the lady, who was assaulted then raped, and her family, I would also ask you to visit rape centres and make the same comment, it is easy to take the "holier than thou" attitude when it doesn't affect you, your family or close associates... but quickly become hypocrites when it does, same on you.

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 22, 2014 17:38

Maybe we just need more intelligent males who have respect for social and moral values.
I don't think the master female race will work as each lunar cycle there would be no one to catch the knives.

Posted by Manowar on April 22, 2014 17:39

Considering that as minors, offenders get more lenient sentences, I would like to see that reduction in responsibility being transferred to the parents, or whoever are the legal guardians of such minors.

If the minors for example get a 30% reduced sentence because of their young age, prosecute and sentence the parents to suffer that 30% liability.

Perhaps then we could see more responsible parenting in the future.

Posted by ThaiMike on April 22, 2014 19:54

Is it possible for PW to ask her for permission to publish her bank account details? I would like to send her some money. It is all I can think of to do to help.

Posted by Smithy on April 22, 2014 19:57

A henious abhorred crime deserves a henious abhorred penalty now of course the do gooders will want to rehabilitate these misunderstood and misguided boys,about a decade at Phuket Hilton is the best hopeful outcome or perhaps a couple more as this is clearly premeditated.

Posted by slickmelb on April 22, 2014 20:06

@ james ... when it happens to one of your family members or loved ones, then u may just understand the position i take .. the victims of rape never find peace and i assure comments that give any support to the rapists just reopen the wound , time after time ... the only good outcome is death to the rapists ,,,then the victims have a slight chance of a normal life ... your attitude and that of any one seeking leniency for rapists turns my stomach ....

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 20:14

@Ed juvinile dettention no doddle agreed, shame they didnt consider that fact when planning this crime,the prolonged seperation of their testicles might be a bit primitive and also illegal in this day & age, I see they hide there faces and hang there heads in shame or is that so there not identified for crimes not come to light yet one speculates.

Posted by slickmelb on April 22, 2014 20:54

When it was the sharks it was in a way funny. But this is serious stuff. Calling-Everyone-a-hypocrite-Laurie shall be assured, that the Thai legal system will not be gentle on this two boys. Their life will change for worse for real.

The bigger thing to think about is the victim. The psychological trauma of the deed will have a deep impact also on the woman's child, as the state of the mother is mirrored by her unborn child and shocks are internalized and if prolonged even hardcoded into the kids subconsciousness. Some really should send her a lot of flowers. Money is also a little sunshine for people living on means end. So yes, giving her some material support will help her seeing the good in life and other people again.

So Laurie, instead of drooling of your supper in vengeance, pick your checkbook and send to her. You know the hospital. Go there or be the hypocrite.

Posted by Lena on April 22, 2014 20:57

ed ...please give me some of your wisdom and point me in the direction where i may find a victim of rape that has FORGIVEN the rapist...are u going to quote the bible next ? lets all join hands and sing kumbaya ..with a bit of luck the real thai justice will be served and these two will disappear ... or perhaps your punishment of separating them will be harsh enough !!

Posted by chris on April 22, 2014 21:45

Very sad and all my thaught going to the victim and familly.
Question, have they been tested for drug intake?

Posted by Oligi on April 22, 2014 22:04

Chris, I would say that it might be time for the "do-gooders" to get a shot at it. Violence in reward for violence is as old as civilization and yet these crimes are still with us. Does it not even enter your mind that repeating the same mistakes over and over again might not be the best path? Also by the way, I can't be sure that the death penalty is final. There is no perfect blanket solution here, this crime and it's impact will harm many for many years and no solution will be final.

As for your projection of me as being a "do-gooder" you missed again. I am though someone who spent several years as therapist for victims of sexual abuse and I am sure it has formed my opinion. Again, the focus should not be on what you think I am or am not nor on how you and Laurie view people who don't conform to your opinion.

Lena thank you for your excellent comments. I would repeat your point. The focus should be on the victim and her needs (they are myriad though I doubt money will give much solace). The least we can do is support her publicly and let the local system deal with the miscreants.

Posted by Martin on April 22, 2014 22:49

Lena is correct. The needs and well being of the victim and her unborn child should be the focus,not salivating (in the pack mentality ) for a swift execution of the perpetrators. I was a woodwork instructor/guard in the Canadian correctional system, protective custody, 7 years. Most of the sex offenders had been abused themselves. It's no excuse. I was abused, and would never dream of sexually abusing someone, so I know. They used to say that 90% of offenders were abused though. In jail, to be labelled a sex offender is the lowest of low in the prison hierarchy, just below snitches, or "rats". If they aren't segregated in PC, and they are put in general population, chris et al will get their wish. In Canada they might be a stabbed a few times with a sharpened toothbrush,In Thai jails they would be treated the same or worse. Thai culture needs systemic changes, for the abnormal amount of rapes, never mind fatalities. Boys are entitled from birth,to the degree that rapes are commonplace. My wife was abused as a teenager in Phuket, by my brother in law. Now these twins will find out the hard way what's it's like at the bottom of the barrel. Hopefully they will have huge remorse, and make something of their lives to help others,to pay back, if they ever get back on the outside in one piece.

Posted by Dean on April 23, 2014 02:57

The Punishment should fit the Crime ...

Posted by chris on April 23, 2014 06:41

Lena, are you seriously suggesting money can take away the years of anguish this lady could go through, you have a female name, so am guessing you are female, I would have thought you would have more understanding of what she is and will go through. I suggest you go to this site https://www.rainn.org/get-information/effects-of-sexual-assault

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_and_aftermath_of_rape

Money, really Lena, you have been in Thailand far too long.

Martin, you support for Lena is commendable, also what you say is true " The needs and well being of the victim and her unborn child should be the focus", but, this is Thailand, no fairyland, there is no support network available, and any support, long term, from family is also doubt, after a short period, she is more than likely to be labelled crazy and ignored, many do not understand what a rape victim goes through therefore expect the victim to "get over it" in a very short time. Let's hope no one close to you even goes through what a rape victim does, next time you are in you home country, go visit a rape crisis centre, Lena, you should do the same, and talk to the victims and their families. Unless you have first hand experience you really do not have the right to judge us that have, for me, my cousin suffered for 5 years before ending her life, her rapist was sentenced to 3 years, out in 2. It's not only the victim that suffers.

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 23, 2014 08:53

Hate the act not the person. Anger is wasted emotion. Direct your energy towards doing some good for the victims of these sorts of crimes. These boys will be in prison and suffering for many years and certainly long after you have forgotten about them and moved onto the next story to rant about.

Posted by pozz59 on April 23, 2014 09:16

@Chris that we can agree on. I do hope the punishment fits the crime.

@Laurie your feelings are understandable and your bravery is commendable. For those of us who have worked in the Thai therapeutic community to try to increase understanding, encourage the medical community to modernize their approach and change community perceptions any culture can be challenging and I agree here more than in most. That is why I repeat that the focus needs to be on the victim.

I disagree that there are not resources out there for her. In the past 20 years Thailand has greatly increased it's awareness and the number of committed, qualified people has gone from nothing to a still inadequate but growing number.

You also identify a major issue of the world not just Thailand, that the education of the public is just as critical and woefully inadequate. Unfortunately as we see on these pages daily you cannot teach compassion and empathy.

As I said before "There is no perfect blanket solution here, this crime and it's impact will harm many for many years ..." so we agree on that.

I can never fully understand what it feels like to be a victim of sexual abuse, as you point out but I can try to understand, I can listen and I can try to help. All I am saying is that spending time focusing on trying to help is a far better use of my energy than dreaming up acts of vengeance that will serve no purpose in helping the person who most needs it.

Posted by Martin on April 23, 2014 10:10

One way to make sure they receive a just punishment is to have the boys tested for diseases. If positive for any such as AIDS or hepatitis, then more counts of reckless endangerment to both the woman and her unborn baby could be added onto the charges.

Posted by The Night Mare on April 23, 2014 10:48

@Ed - Is it possible for minors to be tried as adults in Thailand? I think I read about it happening in a case recently, but I can't recall the particulars.

Posted by concerned in karon on April 23, 2014 10:48

Martin, I commend you on your efforts to support the victims, however, the way I see it, I'd prefer to see less victims, saviour punishment tends to lead to less perpetrators, as they then realise the consequences of their actions. Once a rapist always a rapist, do we release this xxxx, only for them to possibly inflict the same acts upon others, or do show them and others that there is serious consequences to their actions... by the was castration is minor compare to some nations where rapists are executed... Some interesting reading with regards to raising kids and how it has affected society, then relate that to Thai kids...http://www.wnd.com/2009/01/87179/

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 23, 2014 11:06

Here he goes. Again. No, Laurie, I did not write, that money can take away years of anguish. I wrote, that it is important to lessen the traumatic impact on the woman fast, as otherwise for her and her kid it will be years of pain. Break the vicious circle, that was started by the rape, don't let the feeling of deep insecurity manifest.

And what can strangers do? Well, they can show, that the world is not only a place of rapist, but a place of also shocked people, who want to show that there is love and that this is the normal. How can you do that, without wanting to intrude her life? And what makes poor people feeling safer for themselves? Some money or maybe flowers. Maybe both.

It will not make go away anything. But it is like a little sunshine, if people who you don't know, share your shock and give you a little hope. That is what strangers can do, to help a victim start the process of recovering. And give her the funds to enable her to do what she wants. To regain her body and life.

Posted by Lena on April 23, 2014 11:51

Lena, to suggest giving money will in the short term help...how, when the poor woman is alone then no amount of money will help, her mental state can not be saved by money, though in Thailand I guess that money could be used to hire vengeance. She will need understand carers and psychological help for a long time, not help from some condescending money giver.

Posted by Laurie Howells on April 23, 2014 17:40