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Phuket Expat Visa Crush Easily Fixed
By Alan Morison Thursday, April 16, 2015
PHUKET: The throng outside Phuket Immigration will be larger than usual today as hard-pressed officers deal with the backlog from the Songkran holiday and a bureaucracy that is stressed and struggling to cope.
New rules that have obliterated expat visa dodgers have also made life much more difficult for all other expats and for the Immigration staff.
Because of the new, higher standards, requests that once took 30 minutes now require Immigration visitors to drop off documents one day, then return the next.
Long queues now stretch back from the upstairs long-term visa section and the lines are even longer for short-term stayers downstairs.
This is not the fault of the Immigration officers but forced on them by new requirements designed to weed out expats who could once live and work on the holiday island and simply do a visa run to Ranong once a month.
Legend has it that some people did this for more than a decade, earning a living mostly as time-share touts but paying no taxes to Thailand.
The system on Phuket is time-consuming and increasingly frustrating but it's believed Phuket is by no means the most overcrowded immigration office in Thailand. According to reports, that title goes to Chiang Mai.
In most countries, new technology has ended the need for the kinds of crushes that are now being seen at Immigration offices in Thailand, where the men and women who make judgements will have as many as 25 old-fashioned rubber stamps from which to choose.
The delays ripple to other departments, including the court system and the Labor Office, where work permits are issued.
From anecdotal evidence, it's plain that the new regulations and the excessive delays in Immigration are not just driving the law-dodgers out of the country but also influencing the decisions made by some law-abiding contributors to look at options outside Thailand.
While the crackdown is justified, the difficulties involved in getting once-simple procedures done these days leave some people wondering whether there's an active campaign underway to discourage foreigners and foreign investment.
Ironically, expat volunteers are the most important people in the present system operating at Phuket Immigration. Without them, it's difficult to imagine how the place could function.
Yet some of them are growing increasingly frustrated because obvious improvements are not being made. The adoption of a ticketing system of the kind familiar to all bank customers is plainly needed as soon as possible.
So is better advice to expats about what's required now, and how they can avoid delays.
Until the benefits of informing people about likely problems are better communicated, expats will be expected to continue to join the long queues and fritter away precious hours in needless waiting.
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Comments
Comments have been disabled for this article.
Nice job reporting this problem, as well as the knock-on effects it creates to other local government agencies, and actually the national government as well.
I welcome the changes being implemented at Immigration to weed out the system abusers and serial overstayers. Avoidance of paying tax is often at the core of this type of cheating. This is money the government needs to improve all areas of the infrastructure.
The last renewal of my visa at PKT Imm was the worst of them all, taking three days and three separate visits to the office.
To make matters worse, visa agents and fixers now operate a queue jumping system and manage to make wait times even longer for the normal, courteous person. On my last visit(s), I observed several elderly expats forced to queue in the hot sun for far too long, while unbeknownst to them these pro queue jumpers operating near the front door were extending their wait even further.
When I finally reached the door to the air con room downstairs, one poor guy about 65 who was drenched in sweat, basically crashed the door to get inside. People were packed so tight in there it was almost like rugby. I don't blame the man, I think he was just too hot.
This latest experience at Phuket certainly has me considering my options. If those with options do leave, what type of expats will be left?
Posted by
pktexpat
on
April 16, 2015 09:42
Editor Comment:
Indeed. The problem is that the backlog will be compounded. Those on-delay are forced to return again and again and join the regulars - who will be shocked at the crowd. Meanwhile, volunteers are the ones most stressed, and most necessary to keep the system functioning. A little forward-planning would have saved a crisis. And it could get worse before it gets better.
Can anybody tell me the logical reasoning why I have to do a 90 day report, if I have lived here for ten years, the last four in the same house, with no intention to rent another one?
If there is a valid reason, I will be happy with the answer given.
I am on an annual Permit to Stay.
Shame logic died here.
Posted by
Robin
on
April 16, 2015 09:46
There's many things that could be done to irradiate many of the problems, for instance removing the 90 day reporting; which serves very little purpose as you now have to register where you live.
Vietnam is now truly opening its doors to foreigner with an easy visa system and now the ability to own land.
I've not tried it but I wonder if the online 90 day reporting system is working. I've heard rumors that it doesn't work and after completing all the required information the system just alerts the user to visit their local immigration office.
Considering how many foreigners are now living in Phuket I'm amazed the immigration officers can cope at all. Must me a lousy job having to deal with many unhappy foreigners day in day out.
Posted by
Graham
on
April 16, 2015 09:48
Editor Comment:
There may be compensations.
Chiang Mai features as the worst centre for immigration efficiency. Bit like the annual smoke problem at Chiang Mai this time of year. Everyone knows these PROBLEMS its been here for a long time, Immigration management changes but the same PROBLEMS exist. Mai pen rai.
Posted by
expat tiger
on
April 16, 2015 10:12
I tried to access the 90 reporting online, got as far as the first page but the "Accept" button is gray and does not work. Downloaded the "User Guide" which mostly in Thai, I didn't know Thai nationals had to do a 90 day report :)
Posted by
Shwe
on
April 16, 2015 11:18
I have not dealt with Phuket immigration for years, other than at arrival at the airport.
Always being on a Non-B Multi, I neither report, renew nor extend it here. I much rather pay more to just fly out every 90 days and every 15 months to apply for a new one abroad.
It costs me more in monetary terms but saves heaps in nerves. There's no way I will subject myself to the humiliation those queuing up at Phuket immigration have to tolerate indefinitely.
Nowhere does the law state you need to apply for your Non-O retirement visa in Thailand either. Equally the 3 mon before and after money in a Thai bank is just a made-up requirement by local immigration.
Apply and renew your retirement visa abroad and you only have to have the money in the bank on the day of applying for it.
For example in Australia it's AUD 30k. Deposit today, withdraw tomorrow and that's it.
Reducing the inconvenience of foreigners residing in Phuket is probably not very high on the list of priorities for local authorities.
Posted by
Herbert
on
April 16, 2015 11:34
The last time I went to Phuket Immi I was given a number like in a bank. Does anyone know if the 90 day reporting is working online?
Posted by
Welcome to Paradise
on
April 16, 2015 12:34
Editor Comment:
To get a number at Immigration, you have to queue first outside then queue again to see a volunteer, who gives you a number. Then you queue a third time to see an Immigration officer. Nothing like a bank, WtP, where the number also designates what you're there to do. You must live in a dream world.
With Malaysia offering "Malaysia My Second Home" programs and Vietnam making life much easier for foreigners to spend their money in Vietnam, it would rather seem like Thai authorities are either missing an opportunity, or taking a decision to discourage us to stay here. I wonder which it is.
Posted by
Discover Thainess
on
April 16, 2015 13:35
Editor Comment:
Is there some reason why it couldn't be both, DT?
There was a ticketing system last month when I got a 7 day extension. Expats checked the paperwork then gave you a number.
Posted by
The Night Mare
on
April 16, 2015 13:39
Editor Comment:
If you think that's a bank-style ticketing system, you can't tell a pony from an elephant, TNM. Have you ever been to a bank? You enter, take a ticket that is appropriate to your needs, then sit down and usually experience just a short wait. The system at immigration requires a queue outside just so you can queue inside for a volunteer to determine your needs, then give you a ticket. That ticket qualifies you to enter a third queue for an immigration officer.
This is an elephant.
I wonder sometimes whether the problem lies with us, seeing huge crowds and a growing crisis and offering solutions, or expats who walk around with their heads in paper bags.
Of course, if you don't want to go to immigration for the 90 day report and the online reporting doesn't work, you could always do it by mail.
Posted by
Sir Burr
on
April 16, 2015 14:02
I have often wondered why the volunteers work so hard day after day to explain rule changes that have occurred yet no one takes the initiative to go to Phuket wan and other foreign sources of news and offer to give updates to everyone each time there is a rule change instead of waiting for thousands of unaware people to land at their doorstep and then cycle them through two or three times in order to get new requirements accomplished.
Posted by
mike
on
April 16, 2015 14:30
Editor Comment:
It's a puzzle. Communication is not a strong-point, yet everything they do requires it. Give me a week and I could save Immigration millions of baht in wasted man-hours
Another option is the Thailand elite visa, which gives 5 years non stop. You just need to make the 90 days report but the elite office can do it for you in Bangkok, or do it by mail.
I am a long term resident under 50 and had No other choice since I cannot live the country now, too much real estate.
No way I will get humiliated by these immigration officers, I'm not a criminal.
Of course, I'm planning to leave the country, probably to Malaysia, but in the meantime, I won't have to deal with their rude manners in immigration.
Posted by
peter
on
April 16, 2015 14:46
I thought you could also report the 90 days at any 7 eleven these days?
Posted by
Chris
on
April 16, 2015 14:53
Editor Comment:
Er, who told you that?
my wife and i have now lived here for 8 years and never once had an issue doing our roll over of Retirement Visa which generally took us maximum 1 hour including obtaining our multiple re-entry visas.. about 1 month ago i went to Phuket Immigration to just pick up some form but could not get anywhere near the door. my wife tried about 3 days later and had the same problem... i feel sorry for the officials at Phuket Immigration they have always been courteous to us .... unfortunately this time we will have to use a Law Firm to expedite our retirement visas next month at a cost of around thb50,000 for 2 persons as i have heard of some horror stories of having to return the next day to collect passports but told need additional documents and they come back again so all in all about 3 or 4 days wasted doing trips in and out.....
Posted by
aussieinphuket
on
April 16, 2015 15:48
Right now the online reporting does not seem to be working. For me it's just returned a "not found" error even after submitting the application 3 separate times.
Posted by
CaptainJack
on
April 16, 2015 15:55
Ed.
I was at immigration today for 90 day reporting and didn't experience anything like what you describe, so maybe they have already made improvements or perhaps you are referring only to the upstairs section which may be different.
I arrived at about 9:40 and had to wait in just 1 queue to receive a number from 1 of the 2 volunteers. Took about 5 minutes. After that no further queue, just wait for your number to display on the call board. It also appears that they issue different number sequences depending on what service you need. The 100's seemed to be reserved for 90 day reporting with 200's, 300's and 400's issued for other needs. It also was faster than I expected. Just 1 staff was handling 90 day reports. He was at number 120 when I received my number and I watched him handle the next 20 numbers in around 45 minutes before my number came up. Altogether took me 50 minutes start to finish.
Posted by
Richard S
on
April 16, 2015 17:25
I agree with @Robin and many more respondents. I advocate already a long time that for people with a retirement visa the report time could be made once in 180 days. That will give air to Immigration to work on more important thing. Further more, on Phuket is the 90 day report a lucky draw, it can work, but if it not works (most of the time) the Immigration not take any responsibility. It is all up to the foreigner. Be aware of that! I myself not challenge it, I go immigration Phuket town. After getting the new slip in your passport you have peace of mind, yes?
Posted by
Kurt
on
April 16, 2015 18:59
Yes I also support Robin's view that 90 days reporting is pointless. At least increasing to 180 day reporting would help reduce the unreasonable, unhealthy queuing problem.
I can relate to the `25 old-fashioned stamps' in the story. Having worked for companies that insisted on continuous improvement & innovation it is incredible to watch the officer pick up most of those 25 stamps before finding the one he wants. How many times in a year would he do this...and for how many more years?
Posted by
benvento
on
April 16, 2015 19:39
@Ed, no reason at all, and I am sure it is indeed a mixture. I agree with the others on here that 90 day reporting is a total waste of time. Very, very pleased that @Chris believed the April fool's joke on TVisa, I wish I could have seen him go into a 7-11 and try to do a report! Imagine the look of confusion on the poor chap behind the till.
Also, the suggestion of better communication of news and changes through media such as PW is an excellent idea. Soooo much time is wasted by all this red tape.
Posted by
Discover Thainess
on
April 16, 2015 23:06
While I was doing my 90 day report last month one of the volunteers said that if your visa was issued in another province you could not report at Phuket Immigration, you had to go to the province that issued the visa. I have searched online but cannot find an immigration dept. ruling on this. Is this just another "local ruling"
Posted by
Shwe
on
April 17, 2015 06:27
Ed, I always get a number. Just que once. You just have to have the right documents with you. Always was treated very good by the immigration officers and never been there longer than one hour. If you don't like it go back to Australia you miserable old man. Do not forget that you are a guest in this country.
Posted by
Sascha
on
April 17, 2015 07:31
Editor Comment:
What a lame response, Sascha. You must have been poorly educated. Numbers are handed out but the immigration system is nothing like a bank, which is how it should be. Our very reliable information comes from good sources. I have visited Immigration myself more than once a month since October. By the way, I'm not miserable, not old, and not going anywhere. I like it here. What a shame reasonable people have to share it with you.
"This story was just an April Fools joke. As of 2nd April 2015, 90 day reporting is NOT available at 7-Eleven."
The in-line system is not a joke, or not supposed to be anyway! ;-)
Posted by
Alan
on
April 17, 2015 19:00
Visited immigration today for a 90 day report. Not very busy but it still took 2 hours because just one guy was doing the 90 day reports. One other was obviously doing the same but handling passports delivered by other means not by individuals in person. 3 other officers were mainly sat twiddling their thumbs during this time. As it neared the witching hour of midday, the guy handling the "bulk" reports suddenly switched to handling the people there in person. . A real computer system would solve many of these issues. Imagine a bar code on your visa, scan your passport code, scan your visa barcode. Job done in 2 seconds.
Posted by
Anonymous
on
April 17, 2015 23:36
At Ranong over the 'Songkran holiday weekend' (12 April) border crossers from the UK, Canada and USA were asked to pay between 30 and 40 baht per person to the Royal Thai Immigration officers when leaving the Kingdom of Thailand by their respective boat captains - as it was a public holiday. No receipts were issued and the fee seemed to vary between 30 and 40 baht per person.
Posted by
Peter Pan
on
April 22, 2015 18:00
"Editor Comment:
What a lame response, Sascha. You must have been poorly educated."
He, ha, ha! Pot, kettle, black.
I got my one year extension yesterday - in and out in 33 minutes. And then back again in the afternoon to pick up my passport - 20 minutes.
Take the correct documentation and there's no problem.
Posted by
Smithy
on
April 29, 2015 16:46
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Nice job reporting this problem, as well as the knock-on effects it creates to other local government agencies, and actually the national government as well.
I welcome the changes being implemented at Immigration to weed out the system abusers and serial overstayers. Avoidance of paying tax is often at the core of this type of cheating. This is money the government needs to improve all areas of the infrastructure.
The last renewal of my visa at PKT Imm was the worst of them all, taking three days and three separate visits to the office.
To make matters worse, visa agents and fixers now operate a queue jumping system and manage to make wait times even longer for the normal, courteous person. On my last visit(s), I observed several elderly expats forced to queue in the hot sun for far too long, while unbeknownst to them these pro queue jumpers operating near the front door were extending their wait even further.
When I finally reached the door to the air con room downstairs, one poor guy about 65 who was drenched in sweat, basically crashed the door to get inside. People were packed so tight in there it was almost like rugby. I don't blame the man, I think he was just too hot.
This latest experience at Phuket certainly has me considering my options. If those with options do leave, what type of expats will be left?
Posted by pktexpat on April 16, 2015 09:42
Editor Comment:
Indeed. The problem is that the backlog will be compounded. Those on-delay are forced to return again and again and join the regulars - who will be shocked at the crowd. Meanwhile, volunteers are the ones most stressed, and most necessary to keep the system functioning. A little forward-planning would have saved a crisis. And it could get worse before it gets better.