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Phuket Death Crash: Aussies Flee Patong Hirer's Claim
By Chutima Sidasathian and Alan Morison Thursday, June 9, 2011
PHUKET: One Australian tourist has been killed and another man badly injured in a Phuket motorcycle crash that has left a concrete truck driver charged with dangerous driving and a vendor wondering who will pay for his expensive wrecked vehicle.
The Patong motorcycle hirer and a friend even went to the cremation of the Australian man at a Phuket temple to ask the family to pay 300,000 baht to replace the 600cc Honda big bike.
Mediation talks were set to take place at a Phuket police station today - but it appears the dead man's family and his injured friend fled on a flight back to Australia last night, accompanying the ashes of the dead man.
The Phuket police officer handling the case, Lieutenant Praman Rattaphan, said today that he was disappointed that the family did not turn up as scheduled this afternoon to discuss the matter.
''Clearly, they are victims in this case,'' Lieutenant Praman said today. ''I don't know why they flew home in such a hurry. Perhaps Thai friends made them worried.''
Counter-suits in several cases over the past 18 months have raised anxiety levels among expats embroiled in violent or tragic incidents on Phuket.
Earlier this year, two men who were seriously knifed in a Patong gang's attack caught a late-night flight back to Australia in the belief that the men who almost killed them were about to launch a counter-suit that could have kept the wounded Australians on Phuket to answer charges.
Tourist Barry Saunders, 48, died in a Phuket hospital on May 27, just hours after he and his friend Peter hired the 600cc motorcycle in Patong for a day's outing.
Curling that afternoon down a scenic laneway lined with rubber plantations in the Bangjo district, not far from Phuket's famous Heroine's Monument, the pair crashed under an empty cement truck being driven by Amnard Laor, 34.
The occupants of a saloon car that came upon the crash propped Mr Saunders against a nearby tree, while his friend Peter lay bleeding on the roadway.
The injured Australians were eventually conveyed by ambulance to Vachira Hospital in Phuket City, where Mr Saunders died.
The pair of friends had arrived in Bangkok on May 9, moving on to Phuket on May 17. They had been staying in an apartment in the Nanai district of Patong, on Phuket's popular west coast, hiring the ''big bike'' motorcycle on the morning of May 27 and crashing it that afternoon.
Lieutenant Praman said today that the driver of the concrete truck said the motorcycle had been going fast, but inspection of marks on the roadway at the scene led to police charging him with dangerous driving.
Family members flew to Phuket and were approached at Mr Saunders' cremation by the motorcycle's owner, seeking 300,000 baht for his written-off motorcycle.
It is believed the owner had third-party coverage but no insurance on the motorcycle. Phuketwan was unable to contact the hirer today.
Mr Saunders' friend Peter required extensive treatment and paid all his medical bills before checking out of Phuket City's Vachira Hospital this week and, it is believed, leaving the country with his friend's ashes and family members last night.
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Comments
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Sorry for the tragic death of Barry. I used to live in that area and I can state under oath, that those cement truck drivers in that area, drove like banshees. I had quite a few near hits by these trucks who think they are gods on the road and drive on both sides of the dividing line.
I drove a motorbike and a car on this section of road and yes, it is dangerous. I hope the cement truck driver gets his come-upence and the motorbike hirer should learn about insurance.
Trouble is with insurance, once you have it, you'll not need it. BUT if you don't have it, you will come to need it.
Cheap way out is the most expensive in the long run.
Heavy vehicles should have speed governors in them, but as I said, too expensive, the cheap route applies. Ride and drive carefully out there, PLEASE.
Posted by
Graham
on
June 9, 2011 18:28
Amazing Thailand ! Trying to get money from any farang they can ....dead or alive.....If you have a business renting cars or motorcycles , you must have insurance on them.
What tourist expects to come here and rent a vehicle and find out that they have to go somewhere and arrange insurance for their rental also. Do you think this man was told that he had to do that ? And do you think the hirer of the bike thought of approaching the Thai driver of the cement truck for destroying his bike since he might be the one to blame ? Greed runs rampant here........RIP Barry
Posted by
arby
on
June 9, 2011 18:44
Phuket and Thailand at large is wrong in the way that anyone can buy and rent a car or motorcycle without being officially registered with government agencies as Motorcycle & Car rental businesses; therefore all people in Phuket from bargirls up to civil servants are involved in that type of business without paying any taxes.
Also, TAT should make compulsory that all motorcycles and cars must be registered with special business licenses and full insurance to cover any accident.
Posted by
Whistle-Blower
on
June 9, 2011 18:49
"I don't know why they flew home in such a hurry"..
Maybe it had something to do with being chased down for compensation even while at a man's funeral !! If they were so 'obviously the victims' why was the hirer chasing them ??
Because the rule is simple: 'farang pay' !!
Posted by
LivinLOS
on
June 9, 2011 18:49
"the motorbike hirer should learn about insurance"
Sadly because of Thailand's basic insurance infrastructure, its not possible to get class 1 insurance on older 'grey import' bikes such as this 600 honda. Same as cars over 10 years old even if still worth multi millions baht.
Posted by
LivinLOS
on
June 9, 2011 18:51
how much do you want to bet the driver never had a license for a big bike but was still rented out?
Posted by
Michael
on
June 9, 2011 19:12
The motorcycle owner and a friend went to the cremation and asked the family for money; how nice! I wonder if they've been by the home or business of the truck driver yet?
Posted by
Steve L
on
June 9, 2011 19:18
1) why is the police officer smiling when pointing to the bike, utter disgusting
2) WHY did the vendor go to the funeral to ask for the money... no morals AT ALL
3) The cement driver was charged, so shouldn't the company of the truck pay??
4) so the bike WASN'T insured?? , i thought they all came with insurance, esp when THEIR insurance doesn't need to pay as someone else is at fault !!!, or are they just looking for more money????
WHY, as it is a ferang, is the driver not being asked for money, or the company for the lose of his life ??? as if it was a thai on 5 K a month, they would have asked for the standard 500K ...
RIP to the guy, but this is all so backwards
Posted by
bob jenkins
on
June 9, 2011 19:31
Editor Comment:
Bob, I can answer 1. The police officer is smiling because Thais are not Westerners. They don't always smile just because they are happy. They smile in different situations because they are feeling different emotions, and smiling is how they convey those emotions. To assume that Thais smile for the same reason Westerners smile is to misinterpret the differences between the cultures. Just as Inuit have a dozen words for snow, so Thais have a dozen different reasons to smile. Best not to expect everybody to behave as you would. That's what makes us all different.
re editor comment @bobjenkins - is the editor retarded? where is ur response to why the truck driver's company wasn't approached by hire company? wouldn't that be a logical question for a reporter to ask? or where they smiling and u thought it meant something that it didn't... i would not view this website again thanks to that stupid editor comment!!
Posted by
travis
on
June 9, 2011 21:45
Editor Comment:
As the article says, the hirer wasn't contactable.
And to answer your question, the editor is only retarded by the ignorance of some readers.
"Clearly they are victims in this case.."
Did anybody care to inform them of what they already knew? Did the Police bother to inform the Rental Company of this?
"I don't know why they flew home in such a hurry."
Derr, could it be anything to do with the gentle 'request' that they pay $10,000 AUD for a second hand motorcycle while they are cremating their loved one?
The farce and exploitation of foreigners that is accepted as Thai justice is no longer a secret overseas. And these ''clearly'' victims took sound advice and got out before a counter claim and a bit of wheeling and dealing in Thai saw them stuck here for months, surely only to pay more than the ultimate they already had.
Cement trucks drive outrageously quick and dangerously through populated Patong every day. I see them. Best I get out of the way before I'm hit and sued at the same time.
Posted by
Chob
on
June 10, 2011 00:51
The bike owner sounds a real charmer I do hope he gets absolutely nothing for his bike, maybe then he'll invest some time in trying to be a decent human being instead of trying to intimidate grieving relatives at a funeral all because he failed to insure his bike properly, what a disgusting little man he truly is .Mr Ed I've never seen to many people laughing and the remnants of a fatal crash not even here in the land of smiles. I could bring back some photo's from Iraq of blown up vehicles still covered in the remnants of human beings that would have him in stitches according to your take on the Thai peoples cultural differences with we westerners which in this case is totally off the mark by a long way the vast majority would not insult or belittle the dead in this way ever. I suggest you move in better circles before giving Mr Bob Jenkins your wealth of knowledge on Thailand and Thai's .My deepest sympathies to Barry's family.
Posted by
Scunner
on
June 10, 2011 04:58
Editor Comment:
Best do a bit of reading about Thailand, Scunner. One book entitled 'Working with the Thais' by Henry Holmes and Suchada Tangtongtavy, will teach you and bob and Travis that Thais actually employ 13 different types smiles, including the yim sao, the sad smile. Expats who don't do their research are always going to be lost in a land they don't understand.
We may not understand but it is true about smiling in inappropriate situations, I've seen it many times but what I also see many times are these idiot drivers crossing the center lane and driving too fast for their skill, weight and conditions.
Please stay on top of this one, Ed. The fines are usually ridiculously small and not a deterrent to this happening again and again. Time to take back the roads.
Posted by
cha cha na
on
June 10, 2011 07:43
Editor Comment:
It's only inappropriate to people who smile for only one reason.
totally agree with the editor. some of the comments received do show so shallow understanding to Thai social behavior and there are so many times I read and just laugh at the comments made by some trying to bring "farang" perfect to Thailand, if the west is so perfect and Thailand is so bad then why stay here? and why spend so much time complaining about everything? like a old man on his rocking chair on the porch complaining on everything that walks pass.... so sad.... stop bitching and start smelling the roses
Posted by
17 years living here & still happy
on
June 10, 2011 08:56
The Aussie newspapers are going to have a field day with this one and even more damage done to the tourist industry.
Let's enjoy a vacation in Thailand:
1. Rent a JetSki - $10,000 +
2. Rent a Tuk Tuk - Chance of being, assaulted, stabbed and ripped off
3. Hire a motorbike or car - make sure you don't have an accident or you'll end up having to pay regardless to who is a fault.
and the list will go on. Amazing Thailand - yes it's amazing OK but for all the wrong reasons.
It would be interest what idiot moved him and propped him up against a tree - how stupid do you have to be. Any person, with half a brain, would know that a crash victim should NOT be moved unless by professionals.
RIP Barry
Posted by
Graham
on
June 10, 2011 09:13
So Editor in Thai culture according to Henry Holmes and Suchada Tangtongtav there are 13 different types of smiles? How many volumes have they written on crying and lying? Ok, forget about the smiles!
How do you explain the often seen comforting arm of the police around the shoulder of both the accused and convicted? This is a tragedy that will inevitably become a travesty.
I learned the ground rules here a long long time ago. I was stopped at a traffic light when a motor bike ridden by a drunken Thai bounced off a tuk tuk and slammed into the side of my car. I of course was wrong by virtue of being a foreigner.
For me the rule of thumb regards the demise of Phuket is simple. When I came here first, the Thais tried to scam me. Then as time passed they found it acceptable to scam our girl friends and wives as they were now deemed to be guilty and fair game by association.
The death knell is nigh as now the Thais willingly are willingly scamming the Thais.
Posted by
Nip
on
June 10, 2011 10:16
Editor Comment:
Nip, anyone who talks about ''the Thais'' as if they are all somehow in on the conspiracy really should move to some other part of Phuket. Sure, extortion happens. But there are plenty of honest, fair-minded Thais. Could your lifestyle be part of the problem?
Of course, you hire a 600cc superbike for one day to drive slowly and carefully, so the driver couldn't possibly be to blame. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the bike owner who lost 300,000 baht. That is 3 years' salary to a good many Thai people. So in one second you lose 3 years' salary (plus all the future income from hiring out the bike, and those bikes don't come cheap by the day) and you don't at least try to recover that money the only way you can? He did pay respects to the dead man at the funeral; there is no suggestion of "intimidation". And despite their grief, it would have been the right thing to do to arrange to settle at least half of the money as a gesture for wrecking the man's bike and his livelihood. Even a poor Australian CAN find a way to raise 150,000 baht or even 300,000. The probable situation is the bike was going too fast and tailgating, probably attempting to overtake, and the truck braked. Both parties are at fault. If you hire a motorbike without insurance and wreck it, you are liable to pay the damage, even if that hire ends in death, in which case your next of kin are liable. It's a very sad situation but as it is we're now left with 2 victims, the deceased and the bike owner who has now lost a large part of his capital and his livelihood. The dead man's family should do the right thing and settle with him for the residual value of the bike, calculated according to its age and condition before the crash.
Posted by
Judge
on
June 10, 2011 10:40
Editor Comment:
A motorcycle of that value should have been fully insured. The family has surely suffered enough.
I'm a biker myself, I know how reckless the truck drivers are.The truck company should pay for the bike.The aussie family did the right thing. Did the truck driver pay HIS fee to the aussie family as farangs would have to if they crash into Thais????
Posted by
Mex
on
June 10, 2011 10:49
The Editor should not be participating in the forum. If you want to blabber on about your views-join the forum as a non-editor. The title Editor seems to give you the high station here, and your views are unsubstantiated .
Posted by
MARK ROBISON
on
June 10, 2011 11:14
Editor Comment:
Two comments from you so far, and one name-change already. It's a bit difficult to accuse me of unsubstantiated views when you seem unsure of your own identity. If you have something to say of relevance, Mr Robison, please get on with it. Sniping at the editor is for messenger-shooters.
@Judge
If you don't insure something of value for replacement, ie the motorbike, then be prepared to take the loss if it is broken, stolen or damaged.
Sorry for the truth, but no way now is the hirer going to smell a cent from the family nor friends.
Ride to live AND Live to ride. Yeeee haaaa.
Posted by
Graham
on
June 10, 2011 11:17
"The dead man's family should do the right thing and settle with him for the residual value of the bike"
Surely as the 'victim' of a truck driver's negligent driving they should pay nothing, the truck driver should pay for the bike, the entire medical treatment costs for the survivor and compensation to the families.
But of course a different standard of claim will be imposed on the truck driver.
Posted by
LivinLOS
on
June 10, 2011 11:29
The police in this picture he does not smile because he is sad. Do not think that Thai people smile when we are sad, we are not crazy! maybe some drama young girl do. If you talk sh-t so much about my country don't come and stay here then. I don't care They are many people that love my country and want to come. we don't have high standard of living SO WHAT! every country have they own style of living we are happy in our way.
Posted by
Thai Girl
on
June 10, 2011 12:10
I am a biker myself and feel sorry for the 2 guys, unfortunately it's not clear who caused the accident, this would answer the question who is responsible for the damage ( of course the farang... but still ) As the truck driver got fined, in the Western world he would be guilty and would have to pay. Full stop ! But we aren't in the Western world...and therefore we have to take it as it is and live with the now law / not understandable laws - system...every day.
Posted by
Resident
on
June 10, 2011 13:08
Mr Editor. I think you can accept that the majority of Thai people who come to Phuket come for one reason and that is to make money. They are not attracted by our good looks and sense of humor but our bank balances. It is even accepted in legal circles (moderated) and this same mind set goes all the way down past the bar girls to the people from Myamar working on the building sites. They come with an attitude and it is one that I have become all too familiar with over the past 10 years. The place is undeniably corrupt and we can never hope to stand on an equal footing with the Thai people. They make this clear every day in their politics. Even the word Farang is spat out as if a curse. I speak Thai and so many foreigners have no idea what many of the little Thai kids are saying when they smile at them. In the last three days small Thai kids shouted ***k off Farang at me as I walked past. All smiling! I can understand so I don't get annoyed. Phuket has not just caught up with Pattaya as the sin bed capital it is now leading the way. I would suggest that the Thai people are probably the most racist people I have ever met. Am I bitter? Yes I am because I came here and despised the old buggers who constantly ran down Phuket and was the first to say if you don't like it don't stay. But I have become that miserable old git and I understand why... I have stuck my neck out here and expect it to be sliced off and people will have good arguments as to why I am wrong but the truth is the vast majority of residents I would suggest are not very happy with the way things are developing in Phuket and nothing will change.
Posted by
Nip
on
June 10, 2011 16:53
Editor Comment:
What I can accept, Nip, is that you need to start treating people as individuals rather than seeing everything through race-colored glasses. The word ''farang'' is not a problem. It can certainly be a curse, particularly in places where only one kind of expat predominates and earns nothing but scorn. However, it's also a general description that most of the time carries no emphasis, good or bad. As long as your outlook is poisoned, so will your outcomes be. Choose your friends more wisely. Move if necessary. The problem is not ''them,'' it's you.
What I can accept, Nip, is that you need to start treating people as individuals rather than seeing everything through race-colored glasses. The word ''farang'' is not a problem. It can certainly be a curse, particularly in places where only one kind of expat predominates and earns nothing but scorn. However, it's also a general description that most of the time carries no emphasis, good or bad. As long as your outlook is poisoned, so will your outcomes be. Choose your friends more wisely. Move if necessary. The problem is not ''them,'' it's you.
Firstly Mr Editor I have already moved from Phuket. So are you suggesting that when you talk about jet ski operators and tuk tuk drivers you are not generalizing? My outlook is not poisoned it has been poisoned by so many of the people both Thai and Farang that I have met in Phuket. Fact is the place attracts more than its fair share of low life. My friends are fine upstanding people because they are friends by choice. We don't frequent bars and such places to get an insight of what is happening because benign outlets such as Phuketwan tell part of the story for us. And that begs another question... Why do the Gazette and Phuketwan refuse to cover all the shocking corruption stories that are being heard in the Phuket courts at the moment? Give your readers the true picture sir I dare you! Dear God man you accuse me of wearing rose tinted glasses! At least I have glasses Where are yours, If you cant see what is happening to Phuket you are blind. How long have you being living in Phuket? You are an editor not a commentator and you bully so many of the people who comment here. My comments are taken from observations over the past 12 years and I make them reluctantly and as long as publications such as yours pussy foot around the real issues the problems in Phuket will persist. My guess is you are scared to print what is happening. My advice to you is to stop editing but comment on what is really happening! And you know exactly what I am talking about so deal with it if you dare and stop taking cheap shots.
Posted by
Nip
on
June 11, 2011 09:22
Editor Comment:
We have no idea what you are talking about, Nip, and it's plain that you mostly blather for no good reason other than to dissemble and read your own opinion. You blame everybody but yourself. You've left Phuket, but you still pretend to know more about it than those who live and work here. We always attempt to draw the distinction between honest jet-ski operators and tuk-tuk drivers, and those who are not to be trusted. You should do the same. We don't ''refuse to cover'' any aspect of Phuket. But sometimes there are dunderheads who imagine we have the resources and the power to do it all. Like you, they generalise. And believe it or not, Nip, some of them even make it up as they go along. And we don't respond to dares.
Bingo! I have clearly hit a nerve. No more to be said sir. You are right! I am of course as you say a dunderhead who blathers for no good reason other than to dissemble and read my own opinions. I humbly aspire one day to be an Editor who has the conviction to publish the truth to his readers and not shy away from it and then resort to insults. If you believe that I am wrong in my statement about the large number of corruption cases against foreigners in the Phuket courts at present then I gladly take up the challenge. Prove me wrong!
Posted by
Nip
on
June 11, 2011 11:01
Editor Comment:
You said that you have lots of Thai friends yet you denigrate all Thai people, you implied that kids on Phuket had called you names when in fact you later admitted to having moved from Phuket, (''In the last three days small Thai kids shouted ***k off Farang at me as I walked past'') and now you've ''hit a nerve'' about court cases? Come come, Nip. Stop kidding yourself.
I have made my points and you clearly can not read and you are also refusing to take up my challenge! Let the matter rest it clearly bothers you more than me. I bow to a much higher intellect and a sharper pencil.... As a mater of interest could you enlighten us lesser beings as to how long are you living in Thailand?
Posted by
Nip
on
June 11, 2011 11:35
Editor Comment:
Happy to take up your challenge, Nip, as soon as you cough up your 20-year subscription to Phuketwan. What never ceases to amaze is how daring anonymous commenters demand that we do what they don't or won't do.
R.I.P Barry Saunders (AKA Sticks)You were a true gentleman and my Mums best mate.My condolences are with all your family and friends.To all those who use this page to have a bitch GROW UP.And to let all of you know Barry was a very experienced bike rider who would never of put his life or anyone elses in danger.So people that dont know what they are talking about and assume the facts shut your mouths.You will be sadly missed sticks forever in our hearts mate we will meet again 1 day champ and sit back chating like we have done so many times before.
Posted by
Guy Parke
on
June 13, 2011 19:11
Mr Editor,Can you please keep me informed of the outcome of this court hearing if possible thankyou
Posted by
Guy Parke
on
June 15, 2011 12:59
Seems like the police is doing the right thing to charge the truck driver who is obviously wrong. The bike came from the opposite direction, the truck driver veered into the right lane and hit them head on. Even at legal speeds the bike riders had no chance.
Truck drivers get paid for how many loads they carry, that's why they often drive irresponsibly.
I don't think that the policeman is smiling because he sees anything funny in the situation; the editor is right in pointing out the many reasons why Thais smile.
The bike owner should be charged with running an illegal business by renting out bikes that are not insured. These guys are as bad as jet-ski scammers and tuk-tuk drivers, trying to make a fast buck in the tourist business. Ask any one of them and they will tell you that their bikes are fully insured!
Posted by
Klaus
on
June 20, 2011 19:00
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Sorry for the tragic death of Barry. I used to live in that area and I can state under oath, that those cement truck drivers in that area, drove like banshees. I had quite a few near hits by these trucks who think they are gods on the road and drive on both sides of the dividing line.
I drove a motorbike and a car on this section of road and yes, it is dangerous. I hope the cement truck driver gets his come-upence and the motorbike hirer should learn about insurance.
Trouble is with insurance, once you have it, you'll not need it. BUT if you don't have it, you will come to need it.
Cheap way out is the most expensive in the long run.
Heavy vehicles should have speed governors in them, but as I said, too expensive, the cheap route applies. Ride and drive carefully out there, PLEASE.
Posted by Graham on June 9, 2011 18:28