Sad but. Rain was very heavy, guess they (Russians) are not taught to the conditions, from what I see one less.

Posted by john on June 16, 2014 10:44

We asked the government last year to install a yellow, blinking warning light at this corner as it is quite dangerous when cars come out from Soi Mangosteen. Many accidents happened already. They installed it, believe it or not but it is broken in the meantime and was never repaired.

Posted by Hajo on June 16, 2014 11:58

I doubt if a bright yellow blinking light, will discourage many foolish drivers here, it's common sense if it's raining hard or the roads are wet, cut your speed down..
25 is too young to die.. R.I.P.

Posted by Robert on June 16, 2014 12:34

People who coming from northern countries in general are well aware about hazards of slippery roads, however mostly for snowy/icky conditions.
(moderated)

Posted by Sue on June 16, 2014 14:52

@Ed

You are not right: the article says that it was raining at the time of crash, and I raise the issue of tyres' design that proved extra safer feature against aquaplaning and as well the issue that drivers in Tgailajd often drive on vehicle with worn tyres, until tyres are flat.

I wonder how you overlook significance of tyres condition as most important safety factor when driving in adverse weather condition (rain), whether you are simply not acquinted with issue or because you misread my post.

Posted by Sue on June 16, 2014 16:49

@Ed

My apologises if you expected us to comment only on the accident alone, not on a wider context..

General context is that aquaplaning is a major risk associated with raining weather condition, especially when raining heavily.
"Proper tire pressure, narrow and unworn tires, and reduced speeds from those judged suitably moderate in the dry will mitigate the risk of aquaplaning, as will avoidance of standing water.

Electronic stability control systems cannot replace defensive driving techniques and proper tire selection. "

Although driving habits have been already discussed many time as contributing factors, widespread worn tyres have not.
As cited above worn tyres are very important to reduce risk of aquaplaning.
And my personal observation are that drivers in Thailand, in their majority, and incl. tuktuks and taxi drivers, drive on tyres as long as they last, i.e. until not flat, incl. driving on worn tires - and yes, during a rain.

Even those taxi ranks, which are by any measures are more civilised than the rest, like Khnu Preb's one at Jungeceylon, do not have unworn tyers - once I was going to hire a taxi from that stand, and rain was approaching< I inspected like 10 cars' tyres - all were worn, but drivers just nicely smiled when I explained them what I am not happy with.

Worn tyres is a problem in Thailand, and it is important one to pay attention to.

Posted by Sue on June 16, 2014 20:00

We've no clue how fast he was driving. Ive seen folks doing 80 mph or more on this stretch. Scares me to be on the road as the wind from their blow by moves my bike around. Prayers to his family.

Posted by rb on June 16, 2014 20:01

I thoroughly concur with you Hajo: Many years ago the same scenario occurred when a car smashed not into a pole but into a teenager's bedroom at that same spot. Talk about a traumatizing experience...

Posted by Sam Wilko on June 16, 2014 20:08

Sue, even flat tyres only get flat on the bottom. The rest is still ok!

Posted by Manowar on June 16, 2014 20:31

1."Know safety, no injury. No Safety, know injury." Anonymous

2. "We now have unshakable conviction that accident causes are man-made, and that a man-made problem CAN be solved by men and women." W.H. Cameron(1861-1916)

3."The more things change,the more they stay the same/ plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." Alphonse Karr (1808- 1890)

4."Road sense is the offspring of courtesy, and the parent of safety" Australian Traffic Rule Quotation,( Maud van Buren, 1938 )

Posted by farang888 on June 16, 2014 21:27

@Ed

Surely, until an investigation will be complete, we will not know exact reason of crash, as per scientifically established crash casual chain classification,that is adopted by agencies e.g. in US, i.e. the following two pieces of information;

1.Critical Pre-Crash Event
2.Critical Reason for Pre-Crash Event

As well the article is silent on third information piece about a crash:

3.Movement Prior Critical Crash Envelope

However the article disclose nature of the last, fourth piece of information on casual chain of crash, namely

4. Crash-associated Factors,


Critical Reason underlying Pre-Crash Event can be attributed to
A. Driver (distraction, driving too fast, panic etc.)
B. Vehicle (tyres/wheels, brakes etc.)
C. Road (roadway geometry, wet or slick road surface etc.)
D. Atmospheric condition (rain, glare etc.)

Same applies as well for Crash Associated Factors, that potentially contribute to Critical Reason behind Pre-Crash Event - if former so hypothetical , the latter is empirical.

So what we can discuss on the article is only Crash-Associated Factors, which are hypothetical, i.e. speculative.

The article mentions presence of a Crash-Associated Factor, relate to atmospheric conditions - rain.
Rain itself cause two possible major Road related Crash Associated Factors - wet road road surface, and, additionally puddle and pools of rainwater on a roadway.
Each of wet road surface and puddles lead to different Critical Pre-Crash Events, the latter to acquaplanning, but each of event having tyres' condition as statistically major Crash-Associated Factor related to a Vehicle.

So in regard of a vehicle it is a mantra "TYRES TYRES TYRES" that should be repeated if driving through adverse weather condition is expected. Although in Europe, especially in Northern Europe, a watch of tyres conditions all over the year is need not any propaganda as every driver self-evidently understands it's need, in Thailand it is, surely different : first, because of economical reasons, and second because of lack of education on issue and some other cultural differences.

The article did not inform us about any Driver's related Crash-Associated Factors, obviously , because police did not distributed such information.
However, what the ratified could report, but didn't report, these are Road-related Crash-Associated Factors that could be easily reported - first , is road geometry; second, whether there were apparent pools of rainwater on a road surface.

Last one piece of information , which may be available from police or through observation - Movement Prior Critical Crash Envelope.

I suggest in order to improve quality of reporting on crash accidents, for reporters to have a template above, and purposefully seek that information, as the template is about reconstruction of casual chain of a crash, and will lead to better understanding of a particular crash by readers, and ultimately to growing readers' satisfaction and fewer crashes.

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 01:47

@Manowar

I clearly indicated that I'm talking about those flat tyres which are in the category "Vehicle breakdown", namely became flat because of wear&tire,
and not about those flat tyres that are in the class "Vehicle accident", when e.g. some sharp object punctured a tyre.
And yes, you are right - in most cases of latter there is just one puncture - and in many situation this can be easily cured by special glue or alike treatment-
unlike a former, where repair is not possible.

Many, if not most drivers in Thailand, incl. those of commercial vehicles, will keep tyres on until an event of Category I above, having behavior mostly for economical reasons, as it is not common to check whether tyres are bald, and there is no legal enforcement by police on bald tyres , and it is, AFAIK, as Thai law doesn't lay down any provision about specific requirement for tyres.

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 01:48

@Ed

You are profoundly wrong about a value of guesswork in thinking, as what you plying is to lock us in a descriptive mode of historician, for us to operate as passive information system.

".. by far the most important has been a possibility factor. This is an immensely important part of thinking.
That is what driving Western achievement. Chinese culture, which was far ahead of Western technical culture two thousands ago, came to a halt because they moved into description and never developed the possibility system"

Edward de Bono. Teach yourself to think. P.12
Most people are unable to think properly, but it is can be learnt.
The paperback above is still on a sale at various outlets, just 540THB.

"Passive system record only place or shape on surface. This place or shape has a meaning because it refers to pre-defined situation. Active system record place, time, sequence and context.
Active systems are sometimes called "self-organizing systems" as they do not rely on outside 'organizer' but organize themselves"
Edward de Bono. I am right you are wrong. P.10. 540 THB
This is what differs a human thinking from primates one's - ability to accrue and use knowledge, not only observed facts in front.


Associating the fact from the article about rain at the time of accident and by using a knowledge about to what kind of Critical Pre-Crash events rain usually contributes as a Crash-Assisting Factor, we can use knowledge that in such situations most often Vehicle-related Crash-Assisting factor are tyres' condition.

That what my message was: during heavy rain , most probable vehicle-related factor of a crash is tyres' condition;
another factor, from personal observation, is that in Thailand tyres are frequently is on a vehicle although tread is already worn;
not sufficient attention paid to tyre conditions in Thailand and this subject is rarely on agenda on traffic safety discussion.

Regardless whether the reported case has casual link to worn tyres - and it was not reported that tyres were new and tread was 10/32", so it wasn't excluded, under such circumstances of lack of thorough information about crash casual chain, it is worth to reflect on most possible vehicle-related factor - tyres condition, in order to learn smth. from the case on the basis as it was reported, and to have discussion on safety related issue related to tyres conditions in Thailand.

The current article and context of discussion has no underlying legal issues as potential libel claim etc.. Also we are not at court hearings where possibility thinking although is allowed, to significantly smaller degree than in casual situations.

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 12:32

Sue, I think you need to red flag these issues with the General although he may also be worn out and tired at the moment.

Posted by Manowar on June 17, 2014 13:56

@Ed

It is inadequate to call, even in a form of sarcastic connotation, a reference to de Bono thinking tools as "a dissertation" as these tools are so universal
- there is no need not only for post-graduate education, but even for secondary one - all these tools has been successfully taught to Khmer villagers, where, guess, not everyone been at school at all;
- children as young as 9 years can be taught a full set of the tools..

At the same time it is fairly possible to live a long life and not to be able to think properly.

Since when readers' comments are journalism?
Yes, because of some peculiarities of Thai law, readers' comments should be moderated, but it is not an issue above. In this respect I would be happy to oblige, if on any issue.

Premise 1 - fact - The traffic accident happened during a rain
Premise 2 - knowledge - Rain is crash contributing factor
Premise 3 - knowledge - Aquaplanning and Slipping on a wet road - 2 major crash pre-crash event during a rain
Premise 4 - knowledge - both kind of event has a similar vehicle - related Crash associated factor - tyres' condition
Premise 5 - empiric observation - significant number of vehicles have worn tyres while driving
Premise 6 - empiric observation - no public discussion or public safety measure on tyres conditions

Conclusion: as tyres conditions is major vehicle related crash factoid during a rain, and there too many vehicle in Thailand with to short tread on tyres, it is general significant safety hazard on roads here.

My goal of publishing it: to raise awareness and have discussion about tyres condition on vehicles on roads of Thailand in regard of safe driving.

If someone incl. you, would like to challenge e.g. whether Premises 2-4 are knowledge, or whether empiric observation in Premises 5-6 are valid, everyone is welcome.

The conclusion has been derived from valid premises and using valid logical tools.
The goal of publishing the conclusion is also seems to be valid as it fits casual discussion format and is derived from the fact that is part of the article.

So, I believe that you accidentally misread my post, as this one does nog contain "facts" from other publications, only my personal observation and pieces of industry's knowledge.

You're doing your job as a journalist according to journalism standards, but please - give a readers to do their job - and as well part of their joy, to speculate about what is written in an article , [within a law] , as it is virtually only thing what we can do in comments and it is what we would like to do :)

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 17:25

@Manowar

Please rest assured that upon having an adequate complaint, I will contact Khun General without delay, if the complaint will be falling within a scope of his mandate.

FYI I am not bad at filing complains, even for more minor issues, that supposed to come to the General, even resolving them with a help of PaTong muni council and PaTong police, both of which were helpful on my compliant about taking desired location toward a sun while sunbathing on a beach:

Once on an early morning I decided to take sunbathing on the PaTong beach
At that time a sun was located exactly opposite to the shore line
There was a slope, and there was the only fully horizontal break in the slope, ca.2.5m long.
We, Eurooeans, take sunbathing seriously , so my wish was to located face-up toward a sun - it means that a slope part was not suitable for that as to get face-up position toward a sun you would to lie with feet hanging in the air on a level above your head.
The only suitable strip for sunbathing in a horizontal position and looking to a sun , was that 2.5m narrow horizontal strip, that breaks a slope.
At the time when I positioned myself for sunbathing, beach boys still did not begin to place sunbirds on a beach,so it was empty.
After some time, beach boys appeared and started routine of putting down sunbeds.
I taken sunbathes actually on a strip which they wished to use for sunbeds.
When they come to a place where I was located, they requested that I me in order to free a space for their sunbeds - and they were going fully occupy that horizontal with sunbeds.
I refused to move, and explained that I wish to take sunbathes in face-up position toward sun, that was located opposite to the sea at the moment, and that there is no other place on the beach to take such position , as the rest is a slope.
Beach boys insisted that I move.
I again refused and informed them on a public land I can take sunbathes where I want , and I have priority on First Come First Use basis.
They inflamed, beach boy 1 pronounced 4 letter foul word, told me that he is not Muay Thai, that is his land, and it is not for me to decide where to put his sunbeds , and then put a sunbed on my beach staff - fortunately , nothing has been broken.
Beach boy 2 verbally abused me,however without use of colloquial language, bullying into moving to other location.
I cited to beach boy 1 that by using publicly toward me 4-letter-word he violated section 393 of Penal Code of the Kingdom of Thailand, he was a bit surprised by what I told him.
Then I told them they did not have a right to move me or press me to move from the location where I was, and that I will complain to police.
Beach boy 2 laughed at mention of police.
But he who laughs last, laughs longest...

I stayed on a beach for the day, however in the morning I was unable to realize full potential of enjoyment of sunbathing I can't take a position toward sun that I wished.

Beach boy 2, on few occasions approached me, laughing, where is a police then?

That day I verified Thai laws about public property land , it's use and practice of allocating beach to sunbed vendors, and confirmed, that sunbed vendors rights to use a beach for renting sunbed are hierarchically lower to a right of general public to use public property, so I as a member of general public have a right to use a beach without restrictions imposed by sunbed vendors , ultimately if I am already there they can not move me for their business convenience, actually First Come First Use principe.

Then, if we deconstruct Beach Boy's 1&2 misbehavior , then we see that it is punishable by certain sections of Thailand Penal Code (?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???.???. ???????????? 2499), all of which are "Petty offences":

Beach Boy's 1 use of foul language is punishable under Section 393:
Section 393 Whoever, insulting the other person in his presence or by publication, shall be imprisoned not out of one month or fined not out of one thousand Baht, or both.

Beach Boy's 1 physical putting sunbed on my staff , is punishable under Section 392:

Section 392 Whoever, puts a person in fear or in fright by threat, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or fined not exceeding one thousand Baht, or both.

Beach Boy'2 verbal public abuse of me is punishable under Section 397:
Section 397 Whoever, in a public place or before the public, does, by any means whatever to annoy or bully the other person, or causes the other person to be ashamed or troubled, shall bepunished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or fined not exceeding one thousandBaht, or both.

So, next day I went to PaTong muni council, who is currently responsible for allocation of beach strip among sunbed vendors, where I told my story : I draw a profile of a slope,to illustrate a horizontal break, which I taken; a position of a sun against the sea; my wish yo face a sun while sunbathing; and then further chain of events; and wish that beach boys would be punished in accordance with Penal Code, but use of beach strip reviewed or put on alert for future review.

I had to repeat my story 4 times, and to draw a scheme 3 times, until finally head of sub-department emerged, who is responsible for beach strip allocation, then her superior - a head of the whole department, and head of another sub-department who deals with smth.like compliance issues.
All were rather interested in my story, obviously, as a fact of fling a complaint was not everyday event.
I had to formalize my drawing as a formal complaint, as they requested, at the same time they identified on their maps whom the rights to out sunbeds on a beach were allocated, discussed my complaint and agreed with me, and then offered to go with me to that place to bespectacled it and discuss it with sunbed vendors. It all took ca.40 minutes.
At the exit of muni council, they appeared PaTong police patrol car , whom I had again to explain a story, show a drawing, and explain my understanding, of what beach boys did wrong legally.
And, alas! - that is what I love Thailand for! - no one in muni council, or among police officers, ever challenged my wish to occupy that hour zonal slope break , as the only place where I could lie with a face looking toward a sun.They asked questions to clarify technical details, but when they established all points, they all were very empathetic to my wish to have my sunbathes exactly in a way I wished - so they were all focused on satisfying my wish of a way of sunbathing, not on objecting it, labeling "strange" etc.
Police officers additionally asked my few question about details of beach bits actions, and ultimately agreed that their behavior falling under Sections 392,393, 397. They were very attentive to my claims, as they tried accurately to establish a precise role of each beach boy to properly qualify them under appropriate section of Penal code.
Police officers asked what I want them to do - I told that I will be fully satisfied if they would explain to beach people their wrongdoings, and they apologize - and that I am not interested in full proceeding of the case, they agreed.
On three cars we departed to a beach, 2 police officers, and 4 officers from muni council, incl.all mentioned above,armed with 3 large mirror cameras.
A boss of beach chairs on that strip of beach was present, as well as Beach Boy 2.
Boss of chairs tried to explain to police officers that I positioned my body for sunbathing at a place were they supposed to put sunbeds, and that I had to move to some place nearby.
Police officers persisted - exposing to him position of a sun in the early morning, details of a slope and a break of slope, and my wish to take sunbathes with a face toward a sun - and that there was no place there where I could put myself similarly.
It took them 2 repeatition to explain to the Boss of chairs this issue.
As well they explained him that I have a right to put myself wherever I want on the beach, and that they can not put obstacles to it.
The Boss of chairs apologized.
Police officers repeated major points.
Then they explained to Beach Boy 2 what they dud wrong.
Beach Boy 2 apologized.
Muni officers walked all around and took some pictures.
I thanked all of them for involvement.
They encouraged me to chose a spot on a beach I like the most.

And, I do liked expression of face of Beach Boy 2.
I was satisfied.

You have to fight for your rights, Manowar, not only whine or find a self-realization in trolling.

This all means, that if you come, say to Surin beach early in the morning , and place your beach towel where Diamond/Catch etc. place tegus sunbeds usually (and from now only sunbeds will be there), then they do not have right to expel you from that location.
After all works on Surin will be finished, and there will be nicer weather, I will come early in the morning to Surin, and will take a spot which I like with only my bed towel (although usually I use there a sunbed from beach clubs) , for the whole day - so beach clubs' owners and operators on Surin beach , beware! - if you will try to move me , I will call the General , and , unlucky you, who will refer to their presumed right of putting their sunbeds over my rights , and referring to municipal and other similar authorities! Better be prepared!

And I am not bad in getting things done: as I mentioned before, if there is an opportunity of helping to the General of setting integrate beach management system, like BlueFlag, I would be ready and happy to devote some time or efforts to make this happen.

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 17:26

Sue, your persistence is inspirational. I'm not sure what your point is and therefore can hardly disagree.
I can't accept your offer to visit Surin this time as I am currently quiet busy memorising all numbers backwards from infinity and cannot find the right place to start. However, I'm sure the General will appreciate the chance to listen to your ideas and opportunity for Phuket roll in some cash. Remember to address him formally such as.. My name is Sue, how do you do?
If that doesn't work, tell him about your recent experience with the beach boys.

Posted by Manowar on June 17, 2014 19:41

Brilliant, Sue!

Have you ever read any Damon Runyon? It would be right up your street.

Posted by phonus balonus on June 17, 2014 20:51

Is it tire or tyre? C'mon baby lite my fyre,try'n to set the knight on fyyyyyre.. please don't Soo me, I mean Sue me.
Welcome to the doors of perception, and behind door number won, wear the rubber meats the rode, it's HUMAN ERROR 101.

Posted by farang888 on June 17, 2014 21:05

Ahhh Sue und zese udder crazy Euros- vill die to prove zey are right. Strutting out in front of ze traffic as zey haff ze right of vay as pedestrians- until knocked over ven zey find zey haff no rights of way. This isn't Kansas Dorothy, and brevity rocks.

Posted by Mister Ree on June 17, 2014 21:44

@Manowar

Abstracting from your overwhelmingly sarcastic remarks,

the very minor case about argument with beach boys on PaTong beach, goes quite deep and touches various hot issues, about use of beach as public land, rights of public, role of actual beneficiaries etc.

I am glad that it was resolved, even without then absent military administration, it shows that if you know well your legal position and what you want, Thai police and officers still are happy to help, despite various reports about opposite.
And yes, the precedent is a reference to other possible cases for me where issues of beach as public land involved, regardless of scale.

Posted by Sue on June 17, 2014 22:01

sue, that is some world-class pedantry,you are full of (w)it, and manowar, that is some world class- retort, full of (w)it also.

Posted by farang888 on June 18, 2014 04:01

Seriously Sue,your recent essays/diatribes have considerable merit, with regards to tyres and beaches, the former quite volatile indeed. For your thesis on beaches, may I abbreviate the rant? How about, "I came,I saw,I conquered." Caesar would be proud. They said it couldn't be done, getting your own place in the Thai sun. And then along came Sue...

Posted by farang888 on June 18, 2014 07:15

@Mister Ree

Never knew you speak Dutch with Oxford accent.

@phonus balonus

Thanks for suggestion, didn't heard about this author before, indeed could be interesting.
I probably spend too much time on non-fiction, like Dermatalogy Today, where I recently found new useful recommendation on preventinfg melanoma, like. most importantly, omega-6 intake, and retinol's diet or alpha-carotene's instead of beta-carotene's one.

My favorite newspapers should deduct on iTunes monthly charges soon, so then I'll be able to spend 7.99EUR on Damon Runyon's book on iBooks.

Posted by Sue on June 18, 2014 07:36

First of all , my condolences to the famfamIly and friends of the person involved in hat tragic accident.- and a big , genuine " thank you " , to sue , ed , farang 888 manowar -your comments regarding tyres , sunbathing , thinking , languages - has given me the biggest laugh I've had for a long time! thoroughly enjoyable .

Posted by aussierick on June 18, 2014 08:42

"Please rest assured that upon having an adequate complaint, I will contact Khun General without delay, if the complaint will be falling within a scope of his mandate."
Better make it more to the point and succinct Sue, there is no way anybody is listening to you rambling on.

Posted by stevenl on June 18, 2014 09:42

Aussierick, that's why Alan pays us the big Baht. I get paid on a per post agreement. I can only assume Sue is paid per word, might even be based on just a group of letters with no space basis.

Posted by Manowar on June 18, 2014 10:23

@stevenl

Your Black/White ; "all-clear", and if not - "it's BS", world is boooring..

I explained in post you've cited how *I got result* with allegedly corrupted and inefficient Patong police and municipal council when sunbeds vendors, like they did on all Phuket beaches, abused me pretending to be a Master of the beach - and similar issues in most cases people did not resolve successfully, however such cases are often.
I decribed there details how it went.

If you have your similar success stories of resolving with authorities some notorious Phuket-specific problems, please share with us, surely in a brief format,as you prefer, it would be really interesting.

Otherwise just take rest, if this topic is not of interest for you.

Before you start post ad hominem style, breathe slowly few times and then may be save your effort, if you don't have what to say on substance.

Posted by Sue on June 18, 2014 10:47

@ Sue
This topic is about an expat killed in a car accident. Not about sunbed vendors or corrupt Patong police. Nor is it about you telling BS about tuktuk payments.

Posted by stevenl on June 18, 2014 11:01

@stevenl

Nor is it about you telling BS about tuktuk payments.
====

Please don't eat magic mushrooms before you post here, stvenl.

Since there is no posts in this thread "about tuk tuk payments" by me, or anyone else except you - you are the only person who posted in this thread "about tuk tuk payments" - may I attribute, please, that "BS" designation, whatever you meant with it, to your post?

Most of my post here are about significance of unworn tyres to avoid accident during a rain. Hope you drive and are driven by a car with tyres with tread not less 4/32".

But if you have nothing to add on substance to add, you better avoid of posting purely ad hominem posts, as you continuously do.

Posted by Sue on June 18, 2014 17:06

Sue, there's no ad-hominem attacks on you as far as I can tell, but maybe a homonym attack, like you have TOO, TO, I mean TWO non-succinct subjects(tyres and beach- body- placement,much to the chagrin of the Beach Boys) to replace the one, the one about the unfortunate choices made by the poor Russian, like speeding in inclement weather, hopefully not intoxicated to, I mean too. Take good care though..Endless Summer indeed !
Signed: Siege Mentality 101,while hydroplaning two,to, I mean too..

Posted by farang888 on June 18, 2014 21:50

@ Sue
"may I attribute, please, that "BS" designation, whatever you meant with it, to your post?"
The only reason I mentioned 'BS' with regards to tuktuk payments was because you mentioned 'BS' with regards to me. And that could only have come from the thread in which you were talking BS about tuktuk payments.

Have a nice day.

Posted by stevenl on June 19, 2014 09:44

For people with ENGLISH AS A FIRST LANGUAGE...(moderated) I dare you...!

Posted by Ted on June 19, 2014 14:56

@stevenl

That's exactly what I said, you should stop eat magic mushrooms before you post, otherwise you hallucinations that don't exist in reality, and to incoherent thinking:

you attempted to blame me that THIS topic of this thread isn't about tuktuk payments.

Now you say that you allegedly found some posts by me on "tuktuk payments" in OTHER thread?

ANd then you, Master of brevity and perfect rhetoric, claim my post are rambling, but what are "tuktuk payments"? Is this a rent that tuktuk drivers pay to vehicle owners? Ir is a kind of bribes that tuktuk operators allegedly pay to some agencies? Or is it euphemism for a fare for a ride with tuktuk?
Never written here anything on "tuktuk payment".
During last two weeks made some posts on taxi&tuktuk fares in Phuket, so that even doesn't correspond of your possible euphemism of "tuktuk payments".

In which dialect of English language "tuktuk payments" means "taxi fare"? Probably only in the mental confusion state. Same when "this thread" and "that thread" looks to be the same thing.

You better post on substance, not procedure, and think twice before posting, since brief message are so profoundly incoherent.

Posted by Sue on June 19, 2014 19:02

Have not heard tuktuk payments being mentioned lately. Anyone have the latest?

Posted by Manowar on June 19, 2014 21:03

@stevenl

FYI attributive(adjectival) noun in mainstream English implies either possessive form of a noun, or is a part of collocation. Since a collocation "tuktuk payments" doesn't exist in mainstream English, then it actually means "tuktuk's payments". And neither meaning of Genitive(Possessive) case in English would be that of dative role, so for "tuktuk's payments" to mean "payments to tuktuk"(a.k.a. a fare for a ride with tuktuk) ..
This is just to give you a lesson that while you' re rambling texts yourself,you better cope with it first, before you descend to mentor on it.

@Manowar

My understanding is that tuktuks' payment will be dealt while investigating those who are now in preventive detention on suspicion of racketeering hotels in Surin/Kamala/Karon/Kata. Investigators said they are intent on establishing full money trail.
In Shinawatras' AIS case Thai investigators did an amazing job on establishing a money trail, entities etc., and produced high quality argumentation and legal justification on a case, much better than could be expected, and, actually, better than average level of such investigations in the world.

It is expected that crackdown on Patong tuktuk/taxis will start soon, probably, if happens, a money trail will be established too.

Let's see..

Posted by Sue on June 19, 2014 22:33

Sue went down to Surin where she decided to lay,
And the intention was that she'll lay all day,
Then heard, hey, What's going on,

The voice then ordered that she could not stay,
The order was to move or you have to pay,
But to Sue, this was a little unfamiliar

She stood around, hearing this familiar sound,
And imposed her right to occupy this ground,
And all day, thats where she lay.

And the voice said hey, hey, hey hey, hey, hey hey, hey,
If you stay, you're gonna pay,

So Sue decided, she was going to fight,
Fight for her life, of the basic right,
To lay, where the beach boys play.

And they said, hey hey hey, hey, hey hey hey,
What's going on.?

So after a day of abuse, for the basic use,
Of a place on the beach, to seek refuge,
It was time, time for action.
And she said hey, hey hey, hey , hey, hey hey, I'm going to tell you, what's going on.

So off she went, to report to the police
Of the experience she had, with the boys at the beach,
And the police said ok, what's been going on?

Sue explained what happened down at the beach, where she lay in the sun for some general peace,
Buy really, to assess blue flag compliance

So the story was told, as the plot did unfold,
And three days later, as the police got old,
They said hey, what are you on?

And sue said hey, hey, hey, hey ,hey hey, hey, nothing now, They stole my bong!

Posted by Manowar on June 19, 2014 22:39

I just wonder if there are anyone actually reading Sue's comments?

Like I'd said earlier 'Write a book' You have the potential and. fantasy.

Please spare us and keep it a bit short (actually much shorter) but maybe you haven't got anything else to do

Posted by Zenobiz on June 20, 2014 00:41

@Zenobiz

You only once on 15/06 was unsatisfied with my post, where I re-posted someone's else comment about racket by tuktuk/taxi drivers of tour companies at an entrance of big hotels in Surin/Kamala - and on that you became SO inflamed...

Dear Zenobiz, pardon me, but I supposed, by the chance, aren't you from management of those hotels(or its staff..), which, for some reason, don't really want to get rid off tuktuk/taxi people at their entrances, do not want report facts of abuse by tuktuk/taxi, or who may have vested interest in that abuse..?
Why be soo angry about a report that tour companies/operators,except FantaSea, have to pay to tuktuk/taxi thugs like 500THB per customer, to be allowed by to pick up one from a big hotel, uhh?
And to call this report BS, at the time when it was confirmed in media by investigators?

Your sympathetic reaction to that abuse - to deny an obvious - makes me think that you well may be a part of a problem - a part of tuktuk/taxi abuse scheme..

@Manowar

You forget that Alan pays me by number of letter,not you, so you shouldn't steal bread which isn't yours.
And very soon "stevenl" will descend after breakfast full of magic mushrooms, and will tell that your poetry was posted indeed by me, and, again, in the wrong thread, and again it's still too long to read for him, and again, he understands nothing.

BTW, aren't Mr. Ken Freed is your friend? Since he has very similar taste as yours for a smell and look of sand of Patong beach. I expect you and him soon to start anti-BlueFlag movement on the sound ground, that BFlag will not bring extra dime to Phuket, there too many criteria to follow, and, most importantly, it's "complete BS", but beaches of Phuket, as per inspections by you and Ken Freed, are sufficiently clean already now

Posted by Sue on June 20, 2014 06:55

Zenobiz, it's pretty obvious, by the replies, that people do read Sue's comments. Looking at the replies it seems only a few do not agree, I find them well researched and written, unlike many others, the problem I see is her opinions differ to others, they are not necessarily wrong. The debate between her and other readers it entertaining but she must be made aware that any debate with Ed is useless.

Posted by Laurie Howells on June 20, 2014 08:44

Sorry Sue, don't know Ken Freed but I do know Ken Doll and his wife Barb. Not good friends though as I always considered the relationship a bit too plastic.
I would not dream of taking another's bread that's why I always preferred to receive payment in post production dough. Slightly more dense, less volume, easier to manage and not so much air.

Posted by Manowar on June 20, 2014 09:19

Not only rambling, but also short on memory now Sue.

Posted by stevenl on June 20, 2014 10:52

@stevenl

Som Nam Naa, Khun stevenl!
You're unable to keep your cool, lashing out with calling names, that all without pointing to any real fact or a particular substantial point of discussion.

Posted by Sue on June 20, 2014 21:39

main point is thats a dangerous curve where people farangs and thais alike drive way too fast

Posted by Michael on June 20, 2014 22:17

Well people need to slow the heck down, the faster you go the bigger the mess.

Posted by Andrew Ronayne on June 25, 2014 01:25

Single veh crash the one common denominator is the driver the excuses the rain , solution drive in a appropriate manner for the conditions
brakes failed, solution attend to regular maintenance and keep your vehicle roadworthy, lets not embrace excuses but solutions end this road carnage.

Posted by slickmelb on July 2, 2014 17:27

The average Russian drinks a bottle of vodka a day in Russia and drives and survives. They think they can do the same thing here in Thailand but you can't in this heat. The result is this.

Posted by Mitchell on July 2, 2014 20:29