Hmmm im not exactly sure where this is going, what are all these vendors going to do for work?...surely this will translate into a higher crime rate along the line somewhere...fault me if im wrong..

Posted by Andrew Ronayne on July 9, 2014 21:42

what about the nikki beach club. it's right next to layan beach and is a source of extreme noise pollution. or did they pay the right people to be able to stay?

Posted by johnie on July 9, 2014 22:02

Whilst I welcome this I am genuinely curious as to how this has become enshrined into law when we have been told countless times in the past that the Governor has no executive powers. Are these more Bylaws passed by the various Amphurs than actual law?

Posted by Mister Ree on July 9, 2014 22:30

These vendors are on the most part from everywhere but patong / phuket so like they did in their droves when the tsunami hit they can head back to their villages on mainland Thailand where their loyalties truly are, when the prospect of no money from the tourists hits home they will leave the new phuket to get on with it like it did back then without their help on the most part.

Posted by Scunner on July 10, 2014 04:56

To Andrew Ronayne, In Thalang the are a BIG school fore Thai people, on this school they can learn everything fore fri + they get fri room and about 250 Bath every day for and learn something at school Electrician, welding, cooking etc etc, This is a government that operates this school, This is the one great opportunity show they want an education.

Posted by Bjorn Ronningen on July 10, 2014 06:02

More great news.
I cannot wait to get to Phuket in late July and take a look at the NEW beaches.
Fantastic.

Posted by Arthur on July 10, 2014 06:33

Bjorn Ronningen well im sure that is the case but people still need money to live remember there is no social support system for people who don't have work, and the longer people are out of work the higher the risk of crime rates increasing that is simply undeniable its easy to say that there are education centres but that doesn't feed people till after they are educated and the quality of education has to be brought into question as well don't forget this is a country where if you don't work you simply don't eat, I just don't see anything good coming from this they need to give these people support and help them get into new jobs as fast as possible or I can see a very dangerous situation arising as people need to eat and desperate people do desperate things.

Posted by Andrew Ronayne on July 10, 2014 06:56

Andrew Ronayne, They have social support system for people who don't have work, if they pay tax from the work before, they can get up to 15000 Bath fore 3 mounth in one office close Emigration in Phuket Town, but then you most show you pay tax the last year, the same fore Farang working legal in Thailand.

Posted by Bjorn Ronningen on July 10, 2014 07:59

What about Paradise beach , still have to pay 100 baht for entry beach here

Posted by Geir on July 10, 2014 09:52

I am retired and someone who has used the beach daily for the past five years, five hours a day.
The beach in its present condition is barely usable. Going for a walk its ok but who wants to barbecue and get sandblasted for hours, not westerners.

Driving past the beach it does look better; but go look for yourself and see all the garbage; no staff to clean.

Thailand wants to take away the amenities westerners want... bad plan! Tourism is going to take a big hit.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 10, 2014 11:29

Could these poor downtrodden vendors produce there tax returns for the last 7 years so we may evaluate there loss
What you cant well no loss.

Posted by slickmelb on July 10, 2014 13:40

@Andrew Ronayne

Even more: what Bjorn Ronningen mentioned is about when someone is employed in formal sector, but already few years social security benefits are extended to informal sector (noodle shops and. Endorse alike) and agricultural sector , however you have to pay some tax within a period

Posted by Sue on July 10, 2014 15:37

Yes, good q,"What about Paradise beach"? I and my son had to pay 200 baht for going to the sea. And the man was very rude and not friendly.

Posted by sunlover on July 10, 2014 23:21

Jim in patong BOLLOCKS before today on the most part the dross that has ripped beat and robbed the bread and butter of patong for the past 10 years have had no care for their future or that of the Island or it's future income ,we have seen a whole scale change in the guests we are now catering for, gone are the high spending civilised and friendly Scandinavians ,Germans ,Swiss and Austrians to be replaced with low end miserable ignorant Russians / Eastern Europeans and Indians who hug a beer all night have little disposable income and little or no manners or thought for others they have changed the place into some third world low end play park where scam artists and dirt was seen as the new normal well it's not time to get back to the old school patong before the others arrived on mass a time when word of mouth made it a premier place to visit for a holiday with your family so buy a beach brolly a cool box and enjoy a nice clean safe dross free beach courtesy of the green machine and the men of honour who are cleaning the place up Mr.

Posted by Scunner on July 10, 2014 23:28

I'd like the see the Jetskis stay, but be properly regulated. Strict limitation on how many per beach, who can operate them, and enforcement of the insurance rules so there is no more extortion when a wave breaks loose a poorly repaired patch.

Posted by JustSomeGuy on July 11, 2014 00:30

Jim In Patong, - you sound like a business owner who has a stake of some kind, - maybe you aren't but why would anyone who has been to any of the beaches actually "support" the insane levels of commerce that plagued the beaches for years running? I disagree with your assertion that commerce is needed to pick up trash, - what a joke: it Generates Trash. Amenities vs. Nature? yeah right, - turning Phuket into a Vegas by the Sea might be your idea of a great setup but it's not mine nor any of the other millions who appreciate beaches for what they are, - a NATURAL place to breathe the fresh ocean air, a place to swim and relax, to watch the sunset, to snorkel & observe the reefs. If you want amenities, it's called a swimming pool. Tourism won't take a big hit, it will improve. There's critical difference between "increase" and "improve" by the way.

Posted by Karlski on July 11, 2014 06:28

@ Andrew Ronayne,

I have worked in Phuket for the past four years, paying about 750 baht a month for social security. Less than two months ago, I was laid off from my job. A friend just told me that I might be eligible for unemployment benefits, even as a foreigner on a tourist visa. Having paid so much into the system, can I get something back?

Jay Hadduck, Phuket Town. Monday, April 21, 2014 9:35:37 AM - Yes, foreigners are entitled to unemployment benefits.

If you have worked at least six months at your job, you may apply for unemployment benefits at the Phuket Employment Office. Those who quit and those who are laid off are both eligible.

If you quit, you may receive benefits for up three months at a rate of 30 percent of your former salary, up to a maximum salary of 15,000 baht.

If you were laid off, you may receive benefits for up to six months at a rate of 50 percent of your former salary, up to a maximum salary of 15,000 baht.

Those seeking benefits should register at the Employment Office on the day after their last day of work. If you were laid off two months ago, you may still apply, but you will only receive benefits for the remaining four months of the six month period.

Monday, April 21, 2014 9:35:37 AM Phuma Thammakul, chief of the Phuket Provincial Social Security Office (PPSSO).

Posted by Bjorn Ronningen on July 11, 2014 06:51

Kariski
I have no business interest. I am retired and enjoy the beach. My guess is that those who like the new beach, don't use it. As I said it does look better when U drive by, but not as a user. Go look at how few people are enjoying the sun without umbrellas. U are completely wrong about this not affecting tourism. If it is not corrected by high season, westerners will go elsewhere in the future

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 11, 2014 08:53

@Jim in Patong - what a laugh. Tourism is affected right now by the lack of enforcement and what has gone on year in year out in places like Patong. You are the kind of person who want to keep Phuket in the past. Either on board or ship out.

Posted by Ciaran on July 11, 2014 09:59

Editor
You are not a beach user, clearly. The beach not just drive past or come for a photo shoot. It's a place to make new friends from all over the world. The information I give U is not anecdotal, I live it. Your opinions are made from the seat of your pants. By calling names and only having anecdotal information, who is truly showing ignorance?

I would be happy to meet u or anyone else at the police box at Beach Rd and Bangla and give u a tour... Introduce u to some of the staff. Step away from the computer and educate yourself.

The westerners will not put up with this. U will be left with Russians, Chinese and Malaysians. If that is your goal keep, keep it up.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 11, 2014 10:39

Editor
Of course I'm a beach lover. I now have the time and finances to enjoy it. That was a silly statement u made.

Control the beach but don't take away the amenities westerners come to enjoy. That is the logical compromise.

You sound like a young man with chip on his shoulder. You find it useful to loose the attitude and use logic, not name calling and insults.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 11, 2014 11:16

Phuket beaches are looking great. One blight that I have not seen addressed are the advertisement post installed about every 20 meters on the beach side of Patong beach road. Shouldn't these be demolished along with all the other vendor encroachments?

Posted by dkin on July 11, 2014 12:08

Editor
You are not young in years, surprising, but the chip on your shoulder is real. Let the readers read your series of comments and decide.
Good luck trying to get rid of people. Thankfully, I believe cooler heads will prevail.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 11, 2014 12:55

Editor you should know better!!
J know fore a fact that moore then 5 familys with senior citizens from Norway has cancelled theyre tickets because they need the chairs and can not be one the beach all they without an umbrella..
This people have been in Patong fore years and love the beach...

What about familys with small children ??
Do you think the can stay the whole day at the
beach without an umbrella ??

They can and must bring theyre own.
And it vould look the same anyway..

Ask yourself vould you bring youre 5 year Kid to the beach fore the whole day without and umbrella ??

In high seasong the chaid one Patong beach is minnimum so that's not and option..

The ones that rent out the umbrellas and chairs took care of the beach and kept it clean..
There are so much rubbish they cleaned up
took away beer bootles etc. so they don't got broken and washed out to the sea...
They picket up cigarret buns and not only fore
theyre guest also fore the ones who did'nt
rent chairs..

There are now No one who take care of the rubbish..

J agree that it looks better without the umbrellas
but the logic youst is'nt there..
A friend she is a nurse in mid.30 bringing
here family fore years said:
There taking away ecsactly what we are coming fore..

Youre also using names as the cigarsmokers
and trying to put people in a box who use the chairs. That is youst unnpulite..

We are living in 2014 and High end tourist demand the possibillity to rent umbrella chairs..

Look to the big beaches of the Greek islands,Beaches of Italy,
Spain etc. They all got umbrellas and chairs fore rent...

All places of mass tourism has that and need it to get people to come to theyre country..

To say something different is is youst ignorance..
The tourisme with westerns will take another
hit and you will end up with Russians that do not have any money to spend.,

J LOVE Thailand and Patong beach and Thai people,but this is hurting all of the above !!

Philip Norway

Posted by Philip Norway on July 11, 2014 15:01

Editor.

Witch Newspaper is this and who did they ask
Country,age and are they people who use the beaches frequently,How many people did they ask ??

Polles can be verry missleading ..
J vould be very interrested in ready that poll..

Posted by Philp Norway on July 11, 2014 16:21

Editor
Link to poll please.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 11, 2014 19:14

Editor..
J'm sorry,but J could'nt find the poll.
Can U send me the link to the poll
please ??

Posted by Philip Norway on July 11, 2014 19:19

I'm not against beach loungers or people doing business at the beach. Unfortunately greedy Hotels found a lucrative earn by setting up 'beach clubs' where they could earn off their guests whilst at the beach.

This led to local mum and pop style beach restaurants built from a few stick and branches being replaced by high end 'boutique' style places.

The fact they started lording over what is the public's land was their downfall. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

If the beach lounger people had kept it to a few rows there wouldn't have been a problem but when they stretch down to the waters edge it has gone to far.

Blame greed and human beings insatiable wanting of 'more' as the culprit. This coup is the best thing that has happened to Thailand in years.

Posted by Arun Muruga on July 11, 2014 19:44

Get Real Jim, do you really think someone bases their decision on a holiday destination on whether or not it has sunloungers to rent? If your going to make an argument, make sure it stands up. And by the way, Greece and Spain are in no way a high end tourist destination. When were you last there? I have no insight into Italy.

I do agree with you in terms of rubbish clearing/collection, i hope the municipalities get on top of this quick and really beautify and keep these beaches pristine, natural and a joy for us 'beach lovers'. Sunlounger removal is only one step of many that have to happen. Its a good start.

Posted by Andy on July 11, 2014 21:24

@Jim in Patong
@Philip Norway

Navigation at Phuket Gazette site is in respect of poll is absolutely OK, you just need not to focus your whole attention to say upper-left corner, but a bit to a right side column, gravitating downward.Poll result doesn't have links as it will open in kiosk-style pop-up window after you vote.

76% as per now voted for absolutely clean beaches!

Posted by Sue on July 12, 2014 00:08

Andy
The answer to your question is in previous comments.

For those who are against the umbrellas, ask yourselves??? How often do you go to Patong Beach for the day, enjoying to outdoors, making new friends from around the world? If the answer is never or rarely; then you are an armchair quarterback.

Its quite funny when U think about it??? those who are against the umbrellas don???t go to the beach.

My prediction is that before high season, the umbrellas will be back. Likely reduced in number and at a higher price.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 12, 2014 08:43

Editor
If you knew me U would know your exercise comment is silly??????? I am a bit of a nut about fitness. And if you had been to the beach, U would know people are not bring umbrella or chair. Armchair quarterbacks.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 12, 2014 08:57

@Jim in Patong

Umbrellas are banned in Krabi now.
BTW The same was in Phuket right after tsunami, incl.Patong beach...
In Phang Nga province (Khao Lak) it was only until few years ago that hotels & others were banned after tsunami to put sunbeds on the beach, and Le Meridian, Merlin and other have complied..

The problem is only very strict beach management system can effectively keep reduced number of sunbeds intact at mass tourism points, otherwise number of sunbeds start to be close to number of tourists. Only on private islands of Seychelles it will balance out automatically as there few guests for the whole island.

Since for known eras it is apparently clear that Phuket in near future will not have "strong" beach management system, as it doesn't have any at the moment, then "zero-crime-tolerance" alike system is suitable, so no sunbeds on the beach.

I AM beach lover, cook myself a lot, although protect myself with SPF 70, par enteral antioxidant intake etc., have been to many very beuatiful beaches around the world , and I can certify , that surely the most nicest one do not have sunbeds, have aspiring visitors, and visitors are high-end,as it usually doesn't come cheap, even excel.airfare - everywhere from motu near Bora Bora, to Palau, out-islands of Bahamas like Long is., private islands in Magasacar (yes, no sunbeds and drinks too as there is a place of tortoise hatching), Vanuatu and so on..

Posted by Sue on July 12, 2014 10:03

"Its quite funny when U think about it those who are against the umbrellas don't go to the beach."

Many people are not against umbrellas but against the uncontrolled and corrupt use of our natural resources. To get control back, tightening of the reigns is necessary.

Posted by stevenl on July 12, 2014 10:08

@Jim in Patong

There was an excellent article in yesterday NYTimes about 100,000 bucks above travelers - although some of their experienced attractions are controversial , you can easily see that what they are looking for are not umbrellas on a beach.

I mention this in the context of searching what is a mentality of so called "quality tourist" is , which is so desperately looked for by TAT and businesses.
I do not advocate vacating of all beaches for benefits of ultra-rich, still leas sons can be learnt.

There are some people who in the past commented that Phuket beaches should move not toward picture-style mentality - aka current policy of NCPO, but it be at first functional - food , drinks etc.
Let me strongly disagree.. At first place people , especially from higher end, are attracted by the Beaty of nature, not diner shacks..

What wise-men of the field Bill Barnet recently told that fact majority of Patong hotels , and in part of canids, will suffer at first place as they provide no facilities to patrons , have no territory, so current beach cleanup will hit them at first as guest will have no pool alternative to a beach at times,..


Although what PW consistently advocate can sounds extravagant, "crazy", "too much" etc, it is a right direction, and yes, adaptation to every change is a pain.

Posted by Sue on July 12, 2014 10:55

Editor
You don???t use the beach but want to deny those who do, umbrellas. Then you call those who want umbrellas selfish. Your thinking is illogical. Your the one being selfish. And go back and and read what i said. I said limited, your the one saying thousands. Get your facts straight.

We will know soon enough if the umbrellas are back. All of our back and forth will not accomplish anything??? We are different sides of this issue. Now a little patience is required.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 12, 2014 11:37

Editor
You are a beach lover from afar. Pictures of you show that body has not seen the sun or exercise in a long time. Don???t just love it from your home or office, come enjoy.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 12, 2014 12:29

A friend gave me a glossy photo calendar earlier this year titled "World's Most Beautiful Beaches" with a stunning picture of an idyllic beach for each month of the year. It reminded me of why I had moved to Thailand in the first place, and also why until the recent change in administration I was seriously considering getting out.

Not one of the idyllic beaches in the calendar has a lounger on it.

Posted by Treelover on July 12, 2014 16:02

Editor
I???m getting a psychic feeling??? Yes, a new article about how beautiful and usable the beaches are without umbrellas. Story based on stopping by a few beaches for photos.

My offer still stands if you want to come Patong Beach and meet some of the people. Talking to the people is the way to go.

I am glad to see you got out of the office to see the outdoors.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 12, 2014 16:33

Many people in my agency have cancelled booking because no umbrella and chair on the beach

Posted by gigitour on July 12, 2014 21:33

(moderated)

Posted by gigintour on July 12, 2014 21:54

Editor
Why are the question marks showing up in my posts? I???m not putting them there.

The poll in the Gazette is a poorly written question. When I think of ???beach club????? I think hotel. Not the umbrellas the Thais put up at Patong. I would vote that the hotels should not be able to expand their footprint.

Gigatour is correct, there will continue to be cancellations until this is resolved. Russia, China, Malaysia??? those people will still come and not spend.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 13, 2014 08:02

I just have to say that I totally agree with Jim! Been coming to Thailand for several years with my husband and two daughters, and a lot of friends and their families. During day time we spend several hours on the beach, renting sunbeds with umbrellas. We have nothing but good things to say about the vendors, they give exellent service, and are making our vacation complete. There is no question that if the sunbeds/umbrellas/service is no longer available, we and probably all of our friends have had our last trip to Patong. That makes me sad.....because I LOVE Patong! But coming from Norway on a holiday to Thailand during wintertime means we are LONGING for hours on the beach...We usually stay on the beach from around 10-18...for 4 weeks. ..We are beachLOVERS!! Having this kind of holiday in Patong that we love is impossible with your so called "new beach" :(

Posted by Kate from Norway on July 13, 2014 17:03

Editor, why are you trying to make me seem like a bad person because I like to have comfortable days on the beach on my holiday!? You should be ashamed of your self answering your readers like that!

Posted by Kate from Norway on July 13, 2014 17:41

Very disappointed that they have removed sun beds from beach, supposed to arrive at end of August as we have done for last 5 years,hotel room cost $4000 for 2weeks and love to spend time lying about on loungers at beach,why don't you get ride of all the prostitutes on ban gala road and leave the beaches alone.that way you can clean Phuket ,get rid of all the ping pong shows and bar girls or are you making more money from that disgusting trade in life.

Posted by George on July 13, 2014 17:47

@Jim in Patong

Russia, China, Malaysia??? those people will still come and not spend.
===

China, Russia, Malaysia are the biggest Thailand inbound tourism markets , most of money comes from there :

And if these people can behave like they are eco-aware,then it is even better.

Those countries that are officially are highest spenders per capita, like UAE and Kuwait , in total makes tiny share of total, and their figures influenced by their high share of medical tourism, unlike other countries.

Posted by Sue on July 13, 2014 17:53

Kate from Norway, you are missing the point.
Would you find it acceptable if 50 or so Norwegians decided to build holiday shacks at the top of Voringfossen. Some tourists would love to stay there and some would make return trips.
Would it add to tourist value or would people keep away because it looked more like a slum. Would it be acceptable to the government and would the government just allow it to continue where a few people profited illegally at the expense of the country.
Whether or not you prefer lounges Ito cover the beach is irrelevant as you are a minority and it's illegal.

Posted by Manowar on July 13, 2014 18:19

Kate
The editor Alan doesn't get it. And yes he will frame U as a user and not a lover of the beach. He pretends to have lots of many but at 66 is sitting on his butt in the office rather than enjoying himself. He is quite arrogant and tries to dominate conversation by putting U down. He is a pasty skin old man who's body is weak and wants to go back to the 60s. Reminds me of redneck from American.

That said he is doing some good work in Thailand.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 13, 2014 18:42

Sue
Your wrong. I thought u go to the beach but clearly u do not. If u did you would see all of the large Russians who don???t rent umbrellas and shop at 7 11 and family mart drinking beer all day. They stand on the beach for hours with their hand behind the head. Can spot a Russian at 300 meters. They have no money.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 13, 2014 18:47

The work they are doing is great But sunbed and umbrella can be disciplined, reduced in number and by charging fees to dealers.Without this equipment, how many jobs have been created in less?

Posted by gigitour on July 13, 2014 19:03

If a thousand tourists bring chairs and umbrellas on the beach where is the difference?

Posted by gigitour on July 13, 2014 19:07

@Jim in Patong

Nothing in shopping for water in 7-11.

There are various segments in Russuans' inbound tourism market, please come to little Moscow - Laguna and Bang Tao.

Another statistics BTW shows that per capita in Phuket Chinese are Nr.1 spenders .

And these that it is important to support beach hawker way of business is again wrong, their skills upgraded they should find their place in formal economy being employed ,say, by hotel.

Eco-awareness surely will reduce volume of tourism economy in short-term, it is inevitable as it developed in uncontrolled manner.
However in longer-term of course it means sustained tourism economics.

Posted by Sue on July 13, 2014 19:19

Editor.

J am against corruptionMaffias and so are You.
In Norway we don't have beaches that are souteball fore this kind of business one the beach.
But we have other scenaired that tourist wan't to
vissit.
To avoid this suveneur people company's
from everywhere selling ore renting out
bikes and what ever they wan't.
The Norwegian goverments has desided that if You can't beat them regulait them..

The way the doo this is giving permits to how they
can run theyre business..

So you have allready said it's aloud to bring my beach chair and umbrella to the beach and use it.
as loong as J take it with me when J go home..

Then it's beach chairs one the beach and ummbrellad..

What if the goverment gave permits and condiccions how they bussinues can be run to some
company's that offcource pay tax and maybe limit
the amount off chairs..

It's fully possible and buy doing that everyone
is happy and The Thai goverment are getting
tax money and the abuility to regulate the condiccions..

There is also a safety issue that You as a
former lifeguard you also know.
The beachboys renting out chairs is also good lifeguards and has saved many life's

So without them they need moore lifeguards one
duty ore exsperiance moore drownings..

J belive it is a way to satiffy everybody without
maffias ore big resorts claiming the beach as a
private beach and make money fore localls and goverments..

Permits and regulations of how they can run there operations....

Tourist's is very imorten to Thailand
Also the fact that Thailand need Tourist and then they need to cater
fore there different needs....

Norway do that to with fore example snowmobiles
you can not drive them everywhere,
bur there track they can run..

There's always a way to make things work to please everybody..

Finnally.

If J was You J vould take Jim upon hee's
offer to show hee's beach lifestyle..

That vould be good journalistic way.
Not only show one side off this "story"

Best Regards
Philip

Posted by Philip Norway on July 13, 2014 19:50

Sue
Nothing in shopping for water in 7-11. Do not know what that means with that statement.

Sue please come to Patong beach in November You cannot see the beach without looking past hundreds of big dare is say fat russians.

I know Russians who have been coming many years. They do not like to new Russian. Say they are ruining for the rest of Russians. There are some nice russians but most do not speak to westerners and treat Thais poorly. My friend Michael from Germany equates it to when the Berlin wall came down. He said it took 10 years for them assimilate to the west.

Russians have been living in a cave but now are coming out. This will take time before they can be polite. But they have only family mart beer money now.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 13, 2014 20:39

Alan and Phillip
Alan you can't seem to get it threw your skull no one is saying uncontrolled. Why you dont understand?

Secondly Philip brings ups a good point about lifeguards. One day last year there are 4 people in trouble in the surf at the same time. Lifeguard
Adam got one jet ski gets one and beach staff get the other two.

Alan you continue to insult people. Maybe that is why the military is holding your feet to the fire. Humility my friend.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 13, 2014 20:53

@Editor,
I think that you by going after your high staked target of fully natural beaches forget that in humans life "the best result is usually enemy of a good result". The future will be different
and regulations are the only way to achieve results. Simple rules that will find a compromise between economical, ecological and political interests will prevail, e.g.:
1) allow use of only a percentage of every beach for commercial purposes.
2) allow the creation of services (showers, toilets, lifeguards) by the commercial entities in their zones and by local authorities in the free zones.
3) enforce distances of buildings from the shoreline.
4) enforce free corridors along the shorelines.
5) enforce corridors for motor boats and jet skis.
6) create marine parks on a some beaches
to keep them natural allowing only
a certain number of guided visits or diving or snorkling tours.
7) keep care of all the "black river" sewage canals that runs into the "natural sea" and makes most of phuket beaches a stinky experience.
8) create services to clean the beaches daily (by the commercials on their turf and by local authorities on their part)
as you would wonder how similiar to a waste dump a natural beach becomes in a few days.

This will bring stability, sustainability and certainity of law
and thusly economical prosperity to Thailand and Phuket.
Other more drastic solutions as the ones you support will only be reverted
as soon as a new civil government will be in charge again.

Never forget that a large part of population is making a living of it.

BTW: an easier way to achieve your goal would be to close the airport this devilish machinery that brings all this disturbing (but paying) farangs to phuket, making it fully natural again
(and bankrupt).

Posted by AXA on July 13, 2014 20:54

Alan, I don't think Jim in Patong is going to give up on meeting you.
Initially, he attempted to lure you there with offerings of assistance. Having failed, he presented you with a description of his sporting prowess and still failing used the old tactic of insult and dare. Have you been advertising on Thailovelinks again or is this just a Fatal attraction!

Posted by Manowar on July 13, 2014 20:59

Gym is not mine either, especially since the drop in price of sun lounges now allows me to afford one for each room.

Posted by Manowar on July 13, 2014 21:24

That the beach is no doubt the Thai. But I do not think imThai go to the beach as tourists. But maybe when the tourists there will be no morethen the Thai will have plenty of time to go to beach with pockets and an empty belly. Do you have a treasure that nature has given you but you have not been able to handle it. Would have been better identify those responsible for dirty water in the canals that run through the beaches and go into the sea, polluting more than chairs and obrelloni. She editors rightly his ideasuzione
But it does not mean that they are the right ones as well as our own. I can only wish good luck to the great people of Phuket.Just one more thing, because not only Phuket and throughout Thailand must return to the past. It's not that we want to make Phuket an exclusive only for the wealthy few,
They released access to the beach of the Meridien? Paradise.? Who knows?
Best regards

Posted by gigitour on July 13, 2014 21:45

Editor
You make me smile
J'm pro selfish endullgent ??

Funny !!
You said earlier that J was aloud to bring my own chair and umbrella..
And everyone is welcome to use the beach..

Yes ??

So how selfish is it to wan't to have an option to rent a chair,then to buy it ??

How selfish is it off me that wan't a system that
alow me to rent this from locals ??

How selfish is it to point out that J also don't like
corruption and Maffia styles ??

How selfish is it of me to wan't this to be something that gennerates taxes and jobs
fore Thai people..

How sellfish is it of me to wish this done in a Eco friendly way togheter with the goverment
that can make everybody happy ??

How more Eco friendly is it to rent the chairs and umbrella innstead off buying it ??
(Most tourist stay 10-14 days)

How Eco friendly is it when the High seasong com
and all the famillys have to rent a Tuk Tuk
to get all the things they need to bring to the beach because they can't rent it there
and then throwing it before they go back home
because they can not fit it in theyre bag ??

How selfish is it to point out that the beach boys
save many lifes every year without more
lifeguards ore a lifeguard system that works ??


Phuket and Patong is a place off mas Tourisme
that's a fact..
Mas tourisme need many different offers and cater to different needs...

From self indulgense people as myself to young,handikappet,eldrely etc.

When they are met it generates money...
Money that J want to go to Thai people
and theyre goverment....


Again you should take Jim up one he's offer to
show you he's way and thought's..

Thank you fore putting a smile one my face !!

As a news paper Editor J personally think that
you should restrict yourself from calling ore comparing people with example Lion hunters in Africa...
That is not a very nice coment to write to anyone
even iff they have another meaning than you..

J also thought that a newspaper should be open fore different wiews and angels of a story ??

Phuketwan is clearly not of that standard
and if this was to happend in Norway the newspaper vould have lost theyre licence to run
a newspaper because it's illegall to write only one way angling and one a story...

Thank you fore youre time and making me smile..

Best regards
Philip Norway

Posted by Philip Norway on July 13, 2014 21:47

AXA
You sir are a critical thinker. Well thought out post offering ways to compromise. Many here agree that compromise is the way to go. The all or nothing attitudes of Alans always fail. His selfish position will not be tolerated by Thai or expat or tourist.

Posted by Jim in Patong on July 14, 2014 08:25

We are a couple that have holidayed in Patong for over 12 years and we have made many worldwide friends whilst sitting on the beach on the lounges and under the umbrellas which were supplied by hard working locals running a business that keeps many family members employed. A walk on Patong beach in the morning was always met with rubbish and junk but when we arrived at 11 to our reserved sun lounge the beaches were clean and in immaculate condition - by those hard working beach vendors. Surely a compromise is in order here. We as a family will not be spending our days on the beach with this situation where there are no cold drinks and shade available - ignorant decision. And most importantly what about the livelihood of the very hard working beach vendors.
Pete & Jen QLD Australia

Posted by Pete & Jen on July 14, 2014 10:28

I can't believe all the whiners who want loungers on the beach. I have lived at the beach all my life (59 years) and never found the need for a lounger. I put on some sunblock, a t shirt, board shorts and a hat, grab a towel, some water and my surf style swim fins. Good to go! If I want a cold drink, I bring a backpack with my beverage of choice, a plastic glass and a small ice cooler. Very simple. For those of you who say you won't be coming here because of no loungers, good! I certainly won't miss you!

Posted by Jim McGowan on July 14, 2014 14:20

@Jim in Patong

You obviously making wrong generalisations on a basis of interacting in Patong area with quite limited sub-set of visitors to Phuket:

1. Patong itself is the cheapest area in Phuket according to the latest authoritative report by C9 Network led by Bill Barnett, p.4:

http://goo.gl/DyjJhH

It well may be that e.g. in Mai Kao area, where according to report AVERAGE hotel rates are 325USD vs. 100 USD in Patong, you may meet another Russian or Chinese tourists, would you wish socilize with that sub-set of Phuket guests.

2. Statistics by Ministry of Tourism of Thailand for 2013 shows that per day per capita the follwing spendings by county of origin

http://goo.gl/DyjJhH

5097.20 THB Chinese tourists
4737.50 THB Malaysian tourists
4619.51 THB Russian tourists

BUT
4141.21 THB average European
4179.52 THB Austrian tourists
3790.22 THB Belgian tourists
4536.95 THB Danish tourists
4369.55 THB Finnish tourists
3761.68 THB French tourists
3710.01 THB German tourists
3841.77 THB Italian tourists
4154.76 THB Dutch tourists
4479.20 THB Norway tourists
3815.16 THB Spanish tourists
3855.74 THB Swedish tourists
4038.41 THB Swiss tourists
3970.76 THB UK
4257.74 THB Eastern Europe

- so Chinese, Malaysian and Russian tourists spends on average more than ANY other European on average, it means that your observations are plainly wrong.

So, as I said, if Chinese, Malaysian and Russian visitors are acting as eco-aware and ready to attend beaches without loungers, they are welcome even more..

3. You probably never had an experince with Russian either in business or in private. Yes, there is a language barrier, and yes, so called "rules of display[of emotions]" are different - that is routed in different phonetics and rhytmics of a language.

There fewer sexpats/sextourists among Russians, as they come mostly with families, so they not so kind on spending money to please unrelated people with tips, but more on benefits of a family.

hen Russian are rather technocratic - they do not tend to make unreasonable or not well calculated steps, and they do re-calculate all the time - why to buy water on a beach for 30THB if the same bottle of water costs in 7-11 15 THB - regardless of their income level.

Then, if they do not come from Moscow or big cities, but say from Siberia, yes, middle class income can be on par with the one of Australian plumber - but senior accountant from Siberia with 3000USD monthly income will not recklessly spend money on tips, tuk-tuks and other "good things" as working class cadres - once in an environment so different from home, so they finally can afford taxi and fine dining - recklessly do.

4. Finally, it is common for Russians of all social groups "to stand" on the beach or just stroll - both for oligarchs and poormen. Same goes about beachtowels on the sand.

See pictures of Russian olgarch Abramovich and his friend on New year holidays on St Bart in Carribean - yes, they are 'stnding", and everyone bring his own beach towel - although they could effort to bring any beach loungers in any number anywhere:
http://goo.gl/2hXzOI
http://goo.gl/LVfuFn
http://goo.gl/Z2V7RX

Posted by Sue on July 14, 2014 19:06

@Ed

These are numbers per day, per capita. Surely, for shorter stay some certain (semi-) fixed costs (transportation between destinations&related costs, etc.) amortize over the length of stay faster and that could lead to higher per day spending.

The claim JimInPatong was exactly about daily spending (as issue that overall mass of Chinese, Malaysian and Russian tourists are TOP3 source of tourist money was never disputed).

These all figures are calculated by Ministry of Tourism, I just re-posted them here.

The Ministry provide as well breakdown of the cited above statistics by category of expenses (per day per capita)
http://goo.gl/bYx898

China
TOTAL 5097.20 THB incl.:
SHOPPING 1287.30 THB
ENTERTAINMENT 584.07 THB
SIGHTSEEING 286.09 THB
ACCOMODATION 1391.84 THB
FOOD&BEVERAGE 956.74 THB
LOCAL TRANSPORT 509.99 THB
MISC 84.07 THB

Malaysia TOTAL 4737.05 THB incl.:
SHOPPING 1391.19 THB
ENTERTAINMENT 499.68 THB
SIGHTSEEING 183.62 THB
ACCOMODATION 1398.84 THB
FOOD&BEVERAGE 808.39 THB
LOCAL TRANSPORT 377.02 THB
MISC78.31 THB

Russia TOTAL 4619.51 THB incl.:
SHOPPING 1043.44 THB
ENTERTAINMENT 583.41 THB
SIGHTSEEING 217.21 THB
ACCOMODATION 1345.83 THB
FOOD&BEVERAGE 909.69 THB
LOCAL TRANSPORT 464.45 THB
MISC 55.48 THB

Average European TOTAL 4141.21 THB incl.:
SHOPPING 813.71 THB
ENTERTAINMENT 492.33 THB
SIGHTSEEING 162.86 THB
ACCOMODATION 1303.44 THB
FOOD&BEVERAGE 854.74 THB
LOCAL TRANSPORT 467.85 THB
MISC 46.28 THB

So:
1. Average Europeans spends LESS than average Chinese, Malaysian or Russian tourists in absolutely ALL categories of spendings bar Local Transport( they love tuk-tuks, but Malaysian and Russians not, what a terrible surprise!!...). Therefore, it is COMPLETE MYTH by JimInPatong: Europeans are more quality tourists than Chinese, Malaysian or Russian ones, as this is not supported by figures.
2. In particular average European spend apparently less on SHOPPING; but it is obvious that Chinese and Russians are very good patrons of shops, it is quite apparently.
3. Of course, duration of stay of Chinese and Malaysian tourists is much shorter 8.04 days and 4.88 days accordingly vs. average European 16.52 days - but Russia still15.19 days (all data from Ministry of Tourism http://goo.gl/Gez0Lp ). But it doesn't matter for F&B expenses which JimInPatong estaimtes as in his opinion too low for Chinese/Russians/Malaysians.
It doesn't matter in this sense how many days spend every particular tourists, as structure of spending of average day is defined above, and number of total spent days is defines the source of that particular inward market - so, Chinese, Malaysian and Russian inward market are not only significantly larger, but as well "more expensive" per day per expenditure category. And, Alas! they don't need beach lounger which JimInPatong and his friends want.
4. Ministry of Tourism provides as well separate statistics fro package/non-package tourist (to check may be Russian oligarchs spendings distorts whole statistics):
package tourists total spending breakdown by expenditure category here http://goo.gl/1dkbaA
non-package tourists total spending breakdown by expenditure category http://goo.gl/HWYZ1T

this doesn't change the trend at all (all data in THB per day per capita):
China Package TOTAL, 5,635.44 incl. 1,145.00 F&B; Non-package TOTAL 4,792.52, incl. F&B 849.57
Malaysia TOTAL, 4,714.72 incl. 859.81 F&B; Non-package TOTAL 4,754.34 incl. 755.62 F&B
Russia TOTAL, 4,772.60 incl. 946.82 F&B; Non-package TOTAL 4,530.06, incl. F&B 887.97
Average European TOTAL, 4,775.93 incl. 968.12 F&B; Non-package TOTAL 4,019.66, incl. F&B 832.96

So these data again breaks several myths:
Chinese PACKAGE tourists are best spenders , and their non-package counterparts spends less although more than average European by any measure.
For Malaysian and Russian markets there is no material difference between package/non-packege markets

Almost worst spending - against the regular myth! - are non-package Europeans.

5. Finally, I want to know - how much JimInPatong and his advertised friends - spends on Food&Beveraget per month(as they are on long stay),
in particular I am curious whether JimInPatong spends significantly more than ranted by Chinese Package Tourists on F&B 1145*30=34350THB per person ( so if he pays for Miss JimInPatong, then whether it is more than 68700THB per month for both of them?) or at least ranted Russians Package 946.82*30=28404.60 THB per month per person (56809.20 for two)?

6. And then, Chinese, Malaysians and Russian do not imperatively request sunbeds on the beach and spend more than JimInPatong and his friends - what a great clientele for Phuket!

Posted by Sue on July 14, 2014 20:34

SUE

It's bad to be generaliz a whole people,but
Ask any Thai who has interacted with Russians
in a shop ore had them as guest at a resturant

What they think about Russian as guest in theyre country..
J have many Thai friend from all walks of life
some is poure some are wealthy some are in
between...
They all conclude the same..
They wish they had other tourists..
Ask youre friends and they will say exaxtly like
my friends..

There way of sosial approach is so different
and hard that the Thai's get affended by it..

Walking a the streets J here every day
Thai people say F..... off to Russians...
Why J only hear them saying it to Russians ??

J have been to resturants that the whole resturant
was clapping ( Staff also ) when the Russians
was leaving...

No J am sorry Sue Russians in General
are not the best tourist fore Phuket..

Youst last year a drunken Russian Took a baseball bat and clubbed down a religios statue in
Phuket town.
Have you ever heard a westerner do that..

Acording to the Governoure he statet and this
is he's one words:
Phuket has to many "Low Class" tourists and they
so put things togheter so they get moore
High Class tourist...

J also think that money doesen't make you a better person.
It is how You cominicate and treat people
with respect.....
And there is clearly and issue with
Thai Vs. Russians.

Best regards
Philip

Posted by Philip Norway on July 14, 2014 21:58

@Philip Norway

It is a question about Russians, not about Thais - whether Thais are rich or poor, but which slice of Russian tourists you are looking at: if the one that can be found in vicinity of cloak "BangLa" (sorry!) or Patong in general, as I said, it is a cheapest part of Phuket - and % of Russians there correlates with share of Russia as an inward market. The lack of decent Russians in Patong I would attribute more to the sensitivity of a those Russians who can afford not to be in the cheapest cloak of Phuket and then they are at other places - but Europeans, remembering "old good days in Patong " continue to live on their memories of Patong 1987 , not on reality that those sun beds are soar in the eye, and the whole place is a cloak.

If you will go to upmarket segment , say Banyan Tree Phuket,JW Mariott MaiKao, Le Meridien at Karon Noi, Movenpick BangTao, you will three appr.the same proportion of Russians - bug these will be very different breed.

Have you been to Banyan Tree in general ? Have you seen owners' names on villas ? More than half are Russian names.
Same about rent customers in Banyan Tree Residences that is separate more upmarket part of Banyan Tree Phuket.

However Russians are drinking heavily , I encountered in Phuket much more often drunken crazy Aussies and Brits, than misbehaved Russians in Phuket, hardly can remember any - but it's not important, drunk idiots can be of any origin

Yes Governor is correct. Simply Patong is low class's destination , and it shares it's share of Russians and Chinese, who are then low class Russians and Chinese low class. Improve Patong - remove chairs , tuk tuks etc.- to make it not low class, and it will attract Russuans who can pay more then current Parong visitors , and grey will behave better.

Modern Russia is diverse, there are senior plumbers on holiday in Patong and chief executive officers on holiday in MaiKhao , just don't socialize with wrong people regardless of their ethnicity. You actually don't know modern Russians above senior plumbers , just go to places I mentioned above, and compare with Patong's breed.

Posted by Sue on July 14, 2014 22:40

@sunlover

... unfortunately there are no Blue Flag certified beaches in Phuket :(

See the list of all BlueFlag beaches worldwide
www.blueflag.org

But Phuket authorities can start to follow BlueFlag guidelines even without formal authorization, starting to take according steps virtually tomorrow - as Blue Flag 33 criteria guidelines are public, and formal certification will take few year to do it for a first time.

Posted by Sue on July 14, 2014 22:46

@Philip Norway

But what the essence of complains about Russians?
"Heavy-handed approach"?
If so, then in response to WHAT? To good service? Probably not.
Most probably, to tuk tuk price Karon to Airport 1200THB, or similar disturbances?

I personally actually never seen anything what you described in Phuket. Yes, there are lot of Russians everywhere, of different walks of life, cheaper breed on Patong, other beaches and malls, higher class in good resorts and sometimes good restaraunts and similar locations. But they behave normally - like other tourists. Yes, I heard when they haggling tough , but nothing really different from other tourists, except weak or non-existing English.

Yes, I read in media that Russian business in Phuket are more aggressive in vertical integration, providing birth tori agent, guide, transportation, etc. services - by substance nothing wrong .
And who compliance adroit that ? Karon tuk tuk drivers (and their families - virtually every family in Karon /Kata have tuk tuk /taxi driver in family. Then tuk tuks drivers made show , that their families suffer because Russian tour operators "incite against tuk tuk drivers". And then they told to media - we hate Russians as they drive with us.

Then, I read lately that tuk tuk drivers all around the island racket tori companies except Fantasea and request like 500THB "fee" paid for every customer picked up, and that Russian tour companies are among most active complainers to police and Army about that.

It seems then that to some extent we have to be grateful for current crackdown on Phuket vices off those Russuan businesses who complained to police , exciting heavy handed approach , unlike some other businesses.

I tend to think that described by you too tough approach to big extent if really exist then as reaction to some injustices - overcharging, cheating etc. And then vice-doers complained that their tricks did not work anymore..

Yes, Russian tourists do not speak English - so what - let's Thais learn Russian(along with better Mandarin) - but few them like to spend efforts on learning languages , unfortunately.

I was speaking about money because JimInPatong put a these that Chinese Russians Malaysians spend less than he or his friends - I consider this argument as be rebuked in full.

But for manners as you discussed, I am bit in doubt, as I personally never seen that.
Even more, on last Christamas my friend came and rented for a moth one of the best condos in Bang Tao, very close to the beach. I spend many days with them there. Finally I discovered although units belong mainly to Western Europeans, the condo is managed by a local Russuan company - and they maintained it in very good shape. Appr.half of condo was occupied by Russians. But I never heard any noise etc. Even on New Year Day one floor up they sat on balcony , not quiet , but excessively loud - like any other tourists. The cost was not high, ca.8000THB per night for 120m2, that for peak season is very good price. Actually , the whole condo looked like half empty , although was 100% full. All people by the pool were courteous and not loud at all, reading books etc. Their kids were polite and not excessively loud too. Only one time around 1am I have heard some Russians walking around the pool -my friends' unit was on the ground floor near the pool, but then I understand they just checked-in - I think most of other guests would do the same .

Posted by Sue on July 15, 2014 00:42

@ Philip Norway. Please sir your English is making my teeth break off? You cant speak nor write English and I cant speak nor read Norwegian? Please limit your posts to one or two lines? Make like the bird in the Beatles song, Norwegian Wood and lets speak of you as " Flown". Thank you. P.S. You not related to Sue the other cr@pper wrapper are you?

Posted by Duncan B on July 15, 2014 01:02

"

Editor Comment:

Regulations are already in place, AXA, and everyone knows how well they have worked. Your ideas might interest China where enforcement comes first. The point is, it's public space and not for people to make a living from."

and you want to change the regulations
that are in place with other more irrational "all or nothing" regulations
that are not politically and economically sustainable.
How do you imagine this new regulations
could ever be enforced beyond the short term.
Your idea seems illogical to me.

Posted by AXA on July 15, 2014 02:51

"Editor Comment:

The beaches have to be sustainable.. Nothing ''economically'' about it."

They will not be if the economical interests of the population are not taken into account. Rules are only followed if they are shared by the population else they are ignored or overturned at the next best opportunity.
To enforce them against the populations will you need a policeman for every citizen and a soldier for every policemen and so on...

Posted by AXA on July 15, 2014 03:14

Sue, you have a lot of friends who live overseas or a considerable distance away. Have you ever stopped to consider why this may be?
You need to get either a dog, a boyfriend or a job requiring you to work longer hours. Alternatively, a computer virus, RSI of the hands or a trip to Norway

Posted by Manowar on July 15, 2014 03:34

@Manowar

In regard of your Proposal Nr.1, I can only inform you, that I have got already everything in the list(or an appropriate variation).
But the Proposal Nr.2 is completely unacceptable, especially in part "trip to Norway", as it is not only very cold and very dark there, it is so expensive to get food to eat, and it lacks decent shopping where you could spend money besides on food.
That why I need so many friends, that when they come to the Kingdom, they could show me pictures how it is Norway and tell stories of survival whereof therein.
I hope they will bring Blue Flags with a logo "www.blueflag.org", which they could donate to lifeguards, who then plant them onto a beach, as you was frustrated by the lack of sight of blue flags there.

Posted by Sue on July 15, 2014 04:44

I've been coming here for nearly 30 years. A time when dirt roads and teak houses ruled. Where beaches were completely in their natural state, clear of any dwellings and vendors, where 4 wheeled vehicles were almost non existent and the city of Patong finished halfway up Soi Bangla. A couple of the readers out there might know of this place that i speak but the rest of you can only try to imagine how serene, unspoiled and beautiful this place truly once was. Some of the commenters here are clearly only interested in their self indulgent holidays others who should know better call for compromise and regulation.
But this is Thailand, a place where basic road rules cant even be enforced. If you want sunbeds then know, that in time, every square inch of every beach will be covered with them. Thats just the way it goes here.
I totally agree with the Editor, the sunbeds have to go and the beaches should remain as they are legally supposed to be, free and unspoiled for the benefit of all people.

@ Sue, please close your laptop lid for a while. You run rings around WhistleBlower as possibly the most annoying commenter ever on Phuketwan. :)

Posted by Anton on July 15, 2014 13:36

Do any one know, if the restaurants on Bang Thao beach have been removed, or will they let them stay, I would go and look only problem I am in London now.

Posted by Robert London. on July 26, 2014 00:00