Phuket Dolphinarium Backers Spending 30m Baht, Have Four Dolphins in Training
Tuesday, September 2, 2014
PHUKET: The entrepreneurs backing the Phuket dolphinarium told Phuket authorities today that they had four dolphins being trained to appear on the holiday island and were spending 30 million baht on the project.
The circular building is already visible at Chalong, near the Phuket Zoo, although the project's backers have been coy about revealing details and are disturbed at local reaction against keeping dolphins in captivity.
Today's meeting with Phuket Vice Governor Dr Sommai Preechasin at Phuket Provincial Hall in Phuket City took place behind closed doors.
The developers, believed to be the Nemo group, said they had similar facilities elsewhere, Dr Sommai told Phuketwan
after the meeting.
She said they were disturbed by the reaction to the pending opening of the dolphinarium, especially with Prince of Songkhla students who last week expressed their opposition.
The dolphins were already being trained, Dr Sommai said she had been told. The group had 19 dolphins in Russia.
Aiming to spend 30 million baht on the project, the entrepreneurs were working with CITES and hoped to have CITES approval to import the dolphins shortly. Then local approval would be sought, Dr Sommai said she had been told.
It's expected the dolphinarium would have most appeal to Chinese and Russian tourists.
Although marine life theme parks remain popular, there's a substantial and growing number of opponents in the West.
Comments have been disabled for this article.
Ed, I'm sorry to disagree with the use of the word "entrepreneurs" in this article. Whilst the definition is of course correct it does lend a seeming legitimacy to this horrendous venture. These people exploit and abuse innocent wild animals for profit, they are in my opinion cruel and callous and should be depicted as such.
September 2, 2014 14:40
The way things are going in Russia these days..wouldnt surprise me to start seeing alittle drop off in their numbers
September 2, 2014 14:51
The dolphins are So Hungry when They do their DailyShow! If you are So Hungry! You will do anything they Demand!
September 2, 2014 15:05
Save the Dolphins
Phuket the home of clean beaches but cruelty to intelligent mamals.We already have exploitation of Majestic Elephannts and Tiger. The owners should reconsider or reap the wirlwind of international public condemnation.
The Russian backers should consider turning it into a Planatarium that way no mamals suffer and they can show case something they actually know something about. If we dont block this now next stop dog fighting and bear bating.
September 2, 2014 15:26
Please dont let these greedy exploitors of innocent Dolphins enslave our wildlife. Its a Dolphin Gulag, the owners should really reconsider an alternative use for their building. Are we really going to allow one of the natural symbols of local Andaman heritage be subjected to such torture. Its so small the enclosure these intelligent mamals will die slowly of broken hearts.
September 2, 2014 15:37
"It's expected the dolphinarium would have most appeal to Chinese and Russian tourists" considering that China has very little in law to protect animals it is not surprising their people are uneducated on animal rights. I think it will go ahead as decisions like most things in Phuket will be based with a priority on getting tourist's money, not morality. It is a terrible idea and what happens when the initial dolphin die. When you see these animals in the sea actively swimming how can you put them in a tiny enclosure. What does Buddhism say about cruelty to animals?
September 2, 2014 15:43
SOD Save our Dolphins.
Russian entrepreneurs turn your venue into a cage fighting arena and fill it with your own people if you like to watch suffering so much.
September 2, 2014 15:53
"Greedy Russians Developers say sorry as another Dolphin Dies needlessly at Chalong Dolphin Slaughter house". Here is a future headline if the these cruel exploiters are allowed to carry through their plans. Another negative about our beloved island where we already allow elephants and tigers to be cruelly exploited.Clean beaches but not a clean conscience. Bob when was the last time you stood up for anything or anybody, alteast AM has the courage to follow through on what's right even at the risk of personal loss and confinement.
ReallY I agree with SOD if you Russian developers really like to watch suffering set up a cage fighting arena and knock yourselves out. Its a win,win you still make your money and all the sick people who wanted to watch mamals suffer get their wish. If you are in doubt the smallest species of Dolphin is four feet long and you want to put four of them in a small pool surrounded by frightening noise.
September 2, 2014 17:16
It would be worthwhile contacting The Wild Dolphin Foundation, based in Hawaii.
I have done that - just email your concerns to: firstname.lastname@example.org.
I'm sure they would take an interest in such cruelty if enough people voiced their opinions to them.
September 2, 2014 17:48
Russians and Chinese. What happened to this island? This would never have been built had the Europeans been supplanted by these two groups.
September 2, 2014 18:11
So, Phuket is making great strides in its pursuit for quality tourists. Corruption is being tackled at the highest level, soon, it will be possible to hail a taxi at a sensible price, the beaches are in the process of being returned to their beautiful natural state; life is really looking up.
Then from nowhere these greedy Russian developers appeared to build this "attraction" to appeal to "mainly Russian and Chinese tourists". Are these the high-quality, Nature loving, environmentally aware tourists Phuket is seeking? No they are not
Dolphins have evolved over millions of years, adapting perfectly to life in the ocean. They are intelligent, social and self-aware, exhibiting evidence of a highly developed emotional sense.
So to these greedy, cruel developers of this grotesque spectacle and those in charge of improving Phukets' image as an international, high-quality tourist destination, I ask how can this horrendous form of cruelty and torture in any way benefit this Island?
September 2, 2014 18:28
What about the tigers???
I agree, keeping dolphins in captivity is wrong, but where were all these protesters when the Tiger Kingdom was being built?
Is it okay to keep one animal in captivity, but not another? Aren't they all suffering?
September 2, 2014 19:02
The difference between dolphins and tigers is that the ''wild'' for the tigers is shrinking rapidly, thanks to everybody who supports capitalism, with growth as a constant imperative. That's why there is a Tiger Kingdom. Stop growth, reduce consumption and the tigers have a chance in the wild.
Perhaps the dolphins can open a russianarium people would be lined up for miles to watch the dolphins throw em a fish.
September 2, 2014 19:04
Throw them a Ukranian, more likely.
Captures of dolphins are traumatic and stressful and can result in injury and death of dolphins. The number of dolphins that die during capture operations or shortly thereafter are never revealed in dolphinariums or swim-with-dolphins programs. Some facilities even claim their dolphins were "rescued" from the ocean and cannot be released. This claim is almost invariably false.
- Training of dolphins is often deliberately misrepresented by the captive dolphin industry to make it look as if dolphins perform because they like it. This isn't the case. They are performing because they have been deprived of food.
- Most captive dolphins are confined in minuscule tanks containing chemically treated artificial seawater. Dolphins in a tank are severely restricted in using their highly developed sonar, which is one of the most damaging aspects of captivity. It is much like forcing a person to live in a hall of mirrors for the rest of their life their image always bouncing back with no clear direction in sight.
In addition to the indisputable cruelty and inappropriateness of removing wild animals from their natural habitat and communities, keeping dolphins in captivity dooms them to living their lives as mere attractions, spending the majority of their time swimming circles in what to them is the same as a bath tub, baron of anything natural or interesting.
Research shows that captive dolphins suffer from higher mortality rates than wild dolphins, even though they have regular medical care and an environment free of predators.
Don't try and dignify your callous actions by claiming some dubious charitable element to your work, through distasteful propaganda on your website. Shameful. Expect opposition from the masses.
Dolphin Abusment Park
September 2, 2014 19:27
Why does it matter if they spend 30mb or 300mb... its still wrong no matter which way you slice it.
September 2, 2014 19:32
For 300 million baht you get a 10 times larger pool.
We have already enough cheap charly tours chinese and russian more old buses more traffic more black smoke for our children !!!!poor for animals who have too work for little fish and make big money for some farlangs and the price for the shows so expensive that thai people cannot effort or have too loos face too their friends
September 2, 2014 20:02
We absolutely must do all what we can to prevent this ridiculous "show" to be opened. Shame to Thailand and to the Thai Officials if they allow it
September 2, 2014 20:05
Not much point in saying that kind of thing anonymously, anonymous. If you don't think your opinion is worth putting a name on, why bother?
I am not a fan of dolphin shows. But people here need to get off their high horses. Almost every (or every, not almost) country people commenting here come from have their own dolphin shows, whose customers are NOT only chinese or russian, that is something I'd be willing to bet on.
So Brian, so much for Phuket suffering a "whirlwind of international public condemnation" for establishing a dolphinarium. Exactly which country could (with a straight face) condemn Thailand or Phuket? The US? Australia? Don't think so since they have the biggest shows of all, and the longest running too, so are then guilty of making dolphins suffer more than anybody else.
I guess all of you have been picketing Dolphinariums and Zoos in your own countries? No? How come? Also the argument that thai people are not competent enough and so can't be compared to the dolpin shows in your own country likely won't impress the locals either.
September 2, 2014 21:50
Locals and tourists, repeat this three times aloud.
"I will not pay any money to watch, pet, or ride any animals."
September 2, 2014 22:50
"Although marine life theme parks remain popular, there's a substantial and growing number of opponents in the West."
It's not just the west. Croatia, Cyprus, Hungary, Slovenia, and recently India has completely banned them.
September 3, 2014 00:50
I am speechless!!!
@Pete, good idea, I sent them an e-mail too. Do the same, people, out there, make them put pressure on the Thai authorities! email@example.com
Swede from Malmo
September 3, 2014 02:07
@Christen - So because people already torture Dolphins its ok to do it again is it?
Yes, sadly other countries have these sorts of abusement parks, but thanks to wide spread condemnation and environmental awareness many have already been closed; dwindling returns through lack of visitors in addition to public pressure will ensure others follow. Historically, people were less aware of animal suffering, that ignorance led to the building of these spectacles. In todays world there is no excuse. But hey who cares right, its all in the righteous pursuit of profit so, for you, that's okay.
Most decent people learn lessons from past mistakes as well as advancing knowledge and awareness to improve the society in which we live, clearly you are not one of them. Thankfully you are in the minority.
September 3, 2014 06:31
Wonder why this was not built as an open air pool like Florida etc.
Note that the last remaining dolphin in West Edmonton Mall was transferred to Florida in 2004.. was then empty hope it remained so...Was so sad,years back, to see those dolphins in a pool in a shopping mall in the middle of the prairie.
September 3, 2014 06:57
Christian,you are just envious that the Dolphin has a larger Brain than you. How many Farangs do you know called Somsax. Brian is right these greedy russian developers are just in this for the profit, have you even visited the site? if you did you would see a pitiful small pool with no large holding tanks as they have in other countries. The Dolphins can distinguish differences is a shame you haven't died out like the other dinosuars. Please Dont try to speak for Thai people again its not your country.
I hear Soi dogs are doing a sterlislation campaign I will glady pay for you to be sterlized so the next generation dont have to put up with your ignorance.
September 3, 2014 07:05
Christian, nobody is condeming Thailand or Thai people or their abilities or sensitivy, we are condeming the greedy developers behind this dolphinarium. The facts that thsi by far the smallest pool with no large holding tanks.This is about exploitation of a wild mamal with a body to brain ratio 2nd only to humans.
So to repeat one more time this is about greedy developers putting profit before being humane,and stopping this before it damages Phuket's reputation for tolerance fo cruelty.
September 3, 2014 07:27
This is a list of dolphinariums worldwide. Although I do not have any sympathy for dolphinariums - and never attended one - but c'mon, why so much noise about it..?
who are under rampant abuse in the Kingdom, with no end insight , and no initiative even close to a scale of what we hear about this particular dolphinarium..?
Then I get suspicion that either
- someone didn't get a rent that he wanted
- someone didn't get an other kind of payment that he wanted
- someone didn't get a share in the enterprise as it is a foreign investment - unlike tigers-elephants-monkeys shows
Dolphina Sharm el-Sheikh Park
Bayworld Museum and Oceanarium (Dolphins have been relocated to Ocean Park, Hong Kong in July 2009. Exchange dolphins from Ocean Park, Hong Kong will again be housed here after upgrades are completed.)
uShaka Marine World
The Dolphin Resort
Ocean Park, Hong Kong
Guangzhou Ocean World
Wuhan Baiji Base
NanJing Under World
Ningbo Ocean World
Shengya Aquarium, Dalian
Polar Ocean World, Tianjin
Changsha Underwater World
Gelanggang Samudra at Ancol Dreamland
Kish Island Dolphin Park, Kish Island
Dolphin at Dolphin Reef, Eilat
Dolphin Reef, Eilat
List of Aquariums in Japan Directory of Public Aquariums in Japan
Asamushi Aquarium ??? Aomori, Aomori
Aqua World ??? Oarai, Ibaraki
Awashima Marine Park
Dolphin Base (dolphin trader)
Echizen Matsushima Aquarium
Futami Sea Paradise
Inubosaki Marine Park, Choshi
Dolphin Island (Iruka Jima)
Izu-Mito Sea Paradise
Keikyu Aburatsubo Marine Park
Kinosaki Marine World
Marine World Uminonakamichi
Marinepia Matsushima Aquarium
Minamichita Beach Land Aquarium
Misaki Amusement Park Aquarium
Port of Nagoya Public Aquarium
Adventure World (Nanki Shirahama)
Niigata City Aquarium (Marinepia Nihonkai)
Noboribetsu Marine Park Nixe (Hokkaido Marine Park)
Okinawa Churaumi Aquarium
Osaka Aquarium Kaiyukan
Suma Aqualife Park
Taiji Whale Museum
Yokohama Hakkeijima Sea Paradise
Misamis Occidental Aquamarine Park - Libertad Bago, Sinacaban, Misamis Occidental
Ocean Adventure - Subic, Zambales
Dolphin Island at Resorts World Sentosa
Dolphin show at the Safari World dolphinarium in Bangkok, Thailand
Dolphinarium at Seoul Grand Park
Jangsaengpo Whale Museum, Ulsan
Pacific Land, Jeju-do
Aqua Planet, Jeju-do
Ocean World (Taiwan)
Oasis Sea World
Safari World dolphinarium, Bangkok
Hotel Marmaris Resort & Spa - Dolphinpark
Troy Aqua & Dolphinarium
United Arab Emirates
Atlantis, The Palm (Dolphin bay)
Boudewijn Seapark Dolphinarium, Bruges
Festa Dolphinarium, Varna
Fjord & B??lt Centret
Planete Sauvage (safari park)
Moorea dolphin center (InterContinental Moorea Resort & Spa, Moorea Island, French Polynesia)
Attica Zoological Park
Aquarium of Genoa
Delfinario Rimini (only Sea Lion)
Zoosafari Fasano (empty tank)
Lithuanian Sea Museum, Klaip??da
Mediterraneo Park Malta
Jardim Zool??gico de Lisboa
Moscow Zoo *
Oceanarium of TINRO-Center, Vladivostok (only Beluga whales)
St. Petersburg Dolphinarium *
Utrish Dolphinarium, Moscow
Bottlenose dolphins performing at Marineland Mallorca
Barcelona Zoo, Barcelona
Delfinario Aquapark Octopus *
Aqualand, Costa Adeje, Tenerife
Loro Parque, Tenerife
Mundomar, Costa Blanca
Selwo Marina, Benalm??dena
Zoo Aquarium de Madrid, Madrid
Kolm??rden Wildlife Park, Br??viken bay
Kara-Dag Nature Reserve bio-station
Koktebel Dolphinarium, Crimea
Partenit Sanatorium Dolphinarium *
State Oceanarium of Ukraine (Military), Sevastopol *
Yevpatoria Dolphinarium *
Marineland of Canada
Amigos del Mar
Delphinus Riviera Maya
Delphinus Costa Maya
Parque Nizuc/Wet'n Wild Atlantida Canc??n
Dolphin Discovery Canc??n
Dolphin Discovery Cozumel
Dolphin Discovery Mayan Riviera
Dolphin Discovery Vallarta
Parque Acuatico Cici Acapulco
Parque Marino Atlantis
Six Flags M??xico
Cabo Dolphins San Jose Del Cabo B.C.S. Mexico 
Cabo Dolphins Cabo San Lucas B.C.S. Mexico 
Dolphin Discovery San Jose Del Cabo B.C.S. Mexico 
Brookfield Zoo, Illinois
Clearwater Marine Aquarium
Dolphin Quest Hawaii
Dolphin Quest Oahu
Dolphin Research Center
Gulf World Marine Park
Institute for Marine Mammal Studies, Mississippi
Long Marine Laboratory / Institute of Marine Sciences, Seymour Center
National Aquarium in Baltimore dolphinarium
Marineland of Florida
Mote Marine Laboratory
Mystic Aquarium & Institute for Exploration (only Beluga whales)
National Aquarium in Baltimore
Science Applications International Corporation / Spawar (military, NMMP)
Sea Life Park Hawaii
SeaWorld San Diego, California
SeaWorld Orlando, Florida
SeaWorld San Antonio, Texas
Shedd Aquarium, Illinois
Six Flags Marine World's Shouka Stadium, San Francisco
Texas State Aquarium
Theater of the Sea
The Dolphin Connection
The Dolphin Institute / Kewalo Bassin
The Mirage Dolphin Habitat (also known as Siegfried & Roy's Dolphin Habitat), Las Vegas
Walt Disney World's The Seas with Nemo & Friends pavilion
Pet Porpoise Pool
Moorea Dolphin Center
Solomon Islands Marine Mammal Education Centre/Marine Exports Limited (trade facility)
South / Central America and the CaribbeanEdit
Dolphin Discovery Anguilla
Mar del Plata Aquarium
Atlantis Paradise Island - Dolphin Cay
Dolphin Encounters Blue Lagoon Island
UNEXSO / The Dolphin Experience Lagoon
Hugh Parkey's Belize Dive Connection
Dolphin Quest Bermuda
British Virgin Islands
Dolphin Discovery Tortola
Prospect Reef Resort, Tortola
Dolphin Cove, Grand Cayman
Dolphin discovery, Grand Caynan
Rodadero Sea Aquarium and Museum
Vida Marina Islas del Rosario *
Acuario de Bahia de Naranjo *
Acuario Nacional de Cuba *
Cienfuegos Delfinario *
Varadero Delfinario *
Dolphin Island Park
Ocean World Adventure Park
Fins and Flippers / Roatan Institute for Marine Sciences (RIMS)
Dolphin Cove at Treasure Reef, Ocho Rios
Dolphin Cove, Montego Bay
Dolphin Cove, Negril (Lucea, Hanover)
Hotel Los Delphines
Caribbean Stranding Network *
The Netherlands Antilles
Dolphin Academy Cura??ao
Aquarium de Valencia J.V. Seijas
Parque Zoologico El Pinar *
Divers Land *
September 3, 2014 07:36
Dolphins condemed to Die by Greedy Developers. Christian as usual you completely miss the point. This is not about the ability of Thai people to run a facility, its about greedy developers expoliting weak animal protection laws for profit and abject cruelty to a superior species.
Its about taking a stance on doing what is right, and yes I will join or form a picket protest if this is allowed to continue.
Dolphin Abusement Park
September 3, 2014 07:37
@Sue - will you ever get a life and get outside for a bit and get some fresh air.
Just because it was done in the past doesn't make it right - get it??
September 3, 2014 08:27
Sue,this issue is about greedy developers exploiting intelligent wild animals for shamless profit in Thailand and Thailand taking the blame for poor animal rights.
This is not your country so I cannot expect you to feel the same passion that we Thai's feel.You will witness Thai Student power standing up for what is right. If the greedy developers think they can just take what they want, and do what they want, they will soom learn that we are not Ukraine.
September 3, 2014 09:45
I am quite uncomfortable to say it, but despite well-intended declarations and spiritual endeavors in regard of well-being of Animals World, but on the ground it is not a part of Thai culture to reject abuse of animals: elephants - tigers - monkeys - lorries etc. are routinely and severely abused for years for profit entirely by local people in various kinds of shows - and never heard of rejection by mainstream society of these kind of enterprise or of any sizeable initiative in that regard, as otherwise such shows would not exists , and any person carrying a lorri would be condemned by fellow citizens - so there is no real social consensus on rejecting abuse if animals. Yes, there are activists - as eferywhere in the would.
If such rejection would exists as a social fact, that would transform into a law - but there us no laws prohibiting animals shows, and enforcement of animals abuse kaw is soooo loose.
Therefore it is excessively bold statement to say that dolphin shows to be rejected as a part of Thai culture, or as dolphins being symbol of Andaman - never saw dolphins near Thailand Andaman coast, except symbol - a dolphin sculpture at Patong - why dolphins disappeared , isn't because of greedy activities of local fishermen or alike ...?
Tigers in Thailand in my opinion are treated absolutely horrendously in comparison with dolphins.
No single real initiative to end entirely such abuse.
So question is whether reasonable opposition to dolphinarium can be based on
1) entire rejection of dolphinarium idea as society in total reject animal abuse , and in particularly the one of dolphins
2) rejection of a particular configuration of the dolphinarium as it provides substandard conditions in comparison to other existing dolphinariums , which could be taken as a benchmark of standard of well-being to be observed.
1) argument can't withstand critics - as. animals abuse for entertainment purposes in Thailand is so rampant and taking place for a long time; dolphins are not more symbols of the club try than abused elephants or tigers. And yes, "West" - whatever geographical area you attribute to it - is full of dolphinarium , so to say West is against dolphinarium is non-fact.
World is not perfect, so dolphinarium and other animal entertainment shows do exist and will not go in any foreseeable future.
2) argument that this particular Chalong dolphinarium is not providing sufficient well-being for dolphins vs. other similar ones, could be perfectly valid, but is hardly heard in this discussion , being substituted by 1).
I understand that the one in Chalong provides too small pool, no tanks etc. - so THIS should be addresses , not a blank rejection of dolphinarium.
why don't/didn't voice your opposition to dolphinarium in your original home country , or in a neighbor one if the former doesn't have it..? So many countries have dolphinarium , so I assume that within a highway driving distance you can always find it back home.
I remember open dolphinarium in Tortola, BVI - it took for me a glance to see his murky water is, even in absence those customers from cruise ship, and move away immediately ; however my friends returned there later and took a swim.
Yes, it is better, it is not indoor, but still abuse - and nobody fights to shut it down there?
@Pete @Phuket Saviour
Assuming you are not vegans, what about other animal well-being in Thailand, say, of chicken ? although they are raised mostly free-range - that is very good, but how they are slaughtered, please? Are these more human methods, or those brutal that are outlawed or soon to be outlawed in a whole Europe?
And why don't step against other forms animal abuse for entertainment in Thailand ? You had so much time for that, being in the Kingdom for years , if not tens of years.
This selective approach with such emotional charge in regard of this dolphinarium seems to be rather strange and irrelevant as there so many much more horendious abuses of animals, and well described in media, and I have difficulty to believe in its sincerity and impartiality.
It seems there is no way to stop dolphinarium itself - as there is no law that forbid it, and there is no social consensus rejecting animals abuse for entertainment purposes in Thai mainstream society.
What can be - and probably what should be done - if facilities that Chalong dolphinarium is going to provide are below the level of other dolphinarium, then to request upgrade of it on grounds of insufficient regard of animals well-being - I think taking such benchmark in administrative law proceedings is possible.
September 3, 2014 10:01
Potentail Headlines Dolphin Killers and Greedy Russian Developers may be unfair to the Russian backers.
So far we have heard assumptions from many parties myself included that the dolphins will suffer and only the entreperneurs will benefit. Phuketwan is known for its thorough research and coverage and balanced editorial input, and particular the noble stand bt the editor on doing the right thing.
I wonder if the developers can issue some sort of rebuttle to alleviate our fears. Perhaps they can provide exact details of how the dolphins will cared for, the hours they will work and the facilities that they will live in?
This will either vindicate the current objection or calm the fears of those of us that plan to ensure that this never happens, if proper treatment of these magnificent mamals can not be proven.
The Russian backers need to understand that Dolphins are an emotive issue,and that due to current world politics sentiment caused in other contexts can be used to devistating effect out of context. Flicking through Phuketwan you could almost use the same verbage about overcrowded prisons and put it under the Dolphinarium picture, the only difference these intelligent mamals have commiteed no crime.
Not a greedy Russian Developer
September 3, 2014 10:23
You can bring all your nonsense regarding chickens, cockroaches, birds and whatever creature you want into it. This of course is what people who condone dolphinariums do. ITs common practice.
For me we dont need this in Phuket. You can write as much nauseating drivel as you wish to back your argument up. I nearly fell asleep reading it.
In my home country we do not have dolphinariums. We prefer to bring tourists to see the dolphins in their natural environment.
September 3, 2014 10:33
@Sue, your verbose comments, as on most occasions, miss the fundamental point, just because other animals are already abused within the kingdom, or around the world, in no way aides the justification of building another. I assume that you're ill-conceived hypothosis is that while animals are abused elsewhere in the world it's okay to carry on doing so, until it is stopped everywhere.
Your comments that people may not have achieved the rent they required, the kickbacks etc speak strongly to your own character and personality flaws ??? you should not malign the whole Thai population.
Get a life as Phuket Saviour suggested no one is interested in what you have to say anyway.
September 3, 2014 10:45
What was your point about listing all Dolpin theme parks, a list of shame? You are correct its shameful about the exploitation of elephants and Tigers as well. Sometimes you have to go for the low hanging fruit first we can prevent it. In this case the site and facilities are well below an acceptable standard to house these wonderful intelligent mamals, they were wild ad belong in the Oceans and rivers. The site cannot be expanded to incorporate anything that would make it acceptable. You miss the point why can't we be the first to say "no enough exploitation"?
We have an opportunity to oppose this act of cruelty, if you haven't been just go to the site and you can see the size of the building more space for the humans than the animals. An experiment confine yourself to your bedroom for the rest of your life,or just one day, without your computer, and maybe then you can begin to imagine what is would be like for a Dolphin in this arena.
Final question why do you seem to be giving these greedy developers the benefit of the doubt? Perhaps you are angling for their PR post, if offered please take it, as it may spare the rest of us your poorly researched verbose diatribe. The Russians have their own lonely hearts website if you are bored and lonely.
September 3, 2014 10:58
@Sue: Totally wrong yet again Sue, I come from UK where there are NO Dolphinarians now that the last one was closed in 1993. There are conditions as follows: One of these conditions was related to pool dimensions. Whilst some facilities complied with pool size and area none reached or exceeded the minimum depth standards for the species held; for bottle-nose dolphins this depth was approximately 6 metres (20 feet). Ironically Marineland Morecambe one of the first facilities to display these animals had a main pool which was 5.53 metres (18 feet) deep with Flamingoland's main pool having a depth of 4.6 metres (15 feet).
However by this time only three dolphinaria remained and all would have to rebuild and/or extend their existing facilities to be able to publicly display animals after 1993.
Flamingoland was the last facility to house dolphins and did plan to build an extension to the existing dolphinarium to comply with the new keeping regulations but this did not come to fruition and the dolphins were moved to aquaria in Europe.
You say that 'argument can't withstand critics', what on earth do you mean? All arguments are open to criticism. I suggest you go back to bed, have a good sleep to clear your mind, and if you must post, try and keep it short.
September 3, 2014 10:59
Ed, is there any way you can restrict the number of characters in Sues' comment box please? If you could, you would certainly save yourself and your readers a lot of time having to trawl through inane drivel..
September 3, 2014 10:59
We absolutely must do all what we can to prevent this ridiculous "show" to be opened. Shame to Thailand and to the Thai Officials if they allow it.
September 3, 2014 11:17
There are written laws and their are moral values and sometimes a moral value evolves into a law recognised by a sovreign nation and further globally.Quite often its about one person standing up for what is right.Example South Africa Aparteid not illegal there at the time but not moral,the moral code changed.
Its obvious to the rest of us that you are either bored or lonely! I would be quite happy to help you improve your English,which part of Russia do you come from? Or I could pick you up after your work at the Dolphinarium I will be the one holding the biggest placcard.
September 3, 2014 11:17
How about the new "crocodile world" under constructio on Jao Fah Rd.
It should also be halted for all the same reasons as above.
It's all really sad !
September 3, 2014 11:21
People can sign the petition against this nonsense dolphinarium on change .org too
September 3, 2014 11:29
It's not the case of mine "poorly researched diatribe", but the fact actually you both have backed off from 1) argument that entire dolphinarium per se to be banned on non-existent local/global cultural pre-text , and effectively have moved to argument 2) whether facilities of the new dolphinarium meets dolphins well-being standard.
In the end you both argue that Chalong dolphinarium doesn't meet these standards, but do not specify exact non-compliance.
"the European Association for Aquatic Mammals recommends that a pool for five dolphins should have a surface area of 275 m2 (2,960 sq ft) plus an additional 75 m2 (810 sq ft) for every additional animal, have a depth of 3.5 m (11 ft) and have a water volume of at least 1,000 m3 (35,000 cu ft) with an additional 200 m3 (7,100 cu ft) for every additional animal."
You obviously know details of Chalong dolphinarium, which is supposed to hold 4 dolphins .
Please comment whether Chalong dolphinarium meets the above mentioned (or may some other widely-accepted) standard in respect of 4 dolphins, as otherwise opposition on grounds of inadequate facilities doesn't look to be substantiated.
I am still suspicious - that this particular foreign-investment project gets out of proportion scrutiny - at the time when local-owned animal entertainment venues face zero resistance, thrive and expand.
I read about ownership of the project in media - some say Russian , another Ukrainian - but for the reaction it doesn't - would it be from US or AUS then there probably other kind of emotionality charged arguments.
What I see that such unusual scrutiny is applied to foreign investment project - for me it flags that very possibly some local "customary law" was not followed, and it has nothing to do with true animals well being, most probably with some unsatisfied pockets or ambition, who skillfully
Do not see any valid basis for banning dolphinarium , except it doesn't meet commonly accepted dolphins well-being benchmarks.
September 3, 2014 11:52
You're wasting a space on rant, instead of bringing valid argument.
I myself never been customer of dolphinariums and have no interest in them at all.
At the same time have been watching ones in a wild at various places around the world.
But other people obviously have different tastes.
"We don't want it here" - you speak here in the name of whom?
If in the name of Thai mainstream society , then you should acknowledge that it doesn't reject use of animals for entertainment purposes, not less adorable or less symbolic to the country than dolphins.
So if perspective dolphinarium violates common standard of well-being of dolphins, please point out what the non-compliance - then, if this will be the case, I will happily add my voice to opposition to dolphinarium.
Otherwise I it see more than animals well-being issue, a kind of murky under-the-table issue of someone's unsatisfied economic interests or ambitions.
Please prove your case.
You are completely right about moral values as an value element used in legal subsumption.
But I have already made a test: there is no effective moral values in Thailand in regard of rejection of use of animals for entertainment purposes and related abuse. Various animals are used for its uprooted and routinely abused, and it is a common knowledge. However vast majority of such enterprises are lead by local people, number of such enterprises only growing and there is virtually zero effective opposition inside the country to that. Khun Somsax effectively agreed with it too.
Same about "West" in regard of particularly dolphins - complying with some standards, indoor dolphins attraction are widely accepted.
September 3, 2014 12:31
Please, please, please, everybody just ignore Sue, do not entice her to write more of her nonsense. Nobody agrees with what she writes so just ignore the comments then we won't have to scroll through good knows how much drivvle to get to a valid comment....
September 3, 2014 13:36
@ sue. Of course you can see no reason why the dolphinarium should not be built ??? the concept of causing unnecessary harm and stress to an innocent mammal is clearly beyond the bounds of your comprehension.
Your comments are poorly researched, poorly written, ill-conceived and fatuous as always. (The funniest of which to me was when you try to analyse the price paid for for Phuket international hospital ??? your summation was hilarious)
This on the other hand is a serious matter it will condemn the captives too years of suffering and misery, resulting in a premature death which they certainly don't deserve.
So stop trying to outdo Wikipedia and if you must comment address you comments to the moral issues of this spectacle.
September 3, 2014 13:54
It's obvious people can't read, I will personally never go to see the dolphin show. Somsax, you are pitiful and not a little stupid if you think you represent all thai people. To blame it all on "greedy Russians" is simply ridiculous. People here are bending over backwards in order to not aportion any blame on local laws and behaviour. It's the local laws and regulations and Thai people that allow thid show to be established isn't it? You don't think the holding pools are big enough? Blame local regulations. Same with any Zoo or animal show here. No, it's better to just blame "greedy russians and clueless chinese". If you want to blame the people involved, then blame ALL the people involved.
September 3, 2014 13:58
@Sue: Please take Brian up on his offer to improve your English - he means well. Then, perhaps after a year and not before, you will be able to post a coherent comment.
September 3, 2014 14:52
Christian I have never laid claim to represent all Thai People.I am a Thai that has travelled extensively and studied at university level in the UK.I have returned to my homeland to see in this case a greedy Developer looking to exploite wild mamals taken by force under stress and duress from their natural habitat and condemed to a life of cruel drugery.
I am focusing on the main issue which is cruelty to a superior ( for non human)intelligent species. Its my country not yours, that does not currently comply to internationally recognised standards of animal welfare. I seek to change that and take a stance,and in this case if I have to demonise a aparticular farternity to achieve my aims,I will do so. Its not Thai people that will frequent this place if its allowed, it will be ferangs and if its Russian owned then its reasonable to assune that the marketing will cater for this market.For the record I dont agree with the exploitation of Tigers or Elephants or people either. In this case its preventable if I can galvanise support against it. So its with a sense of logic and purpose that I am opposed to this arena of misery. I don't have the time to waste agrguing with you,its fruitless as you have no influence or significance in my country, you are just another foreign visitor with a big mouth and and a highly inflated ego. I would rather ensure that these greedy Russian developers are not allowed to commit a moral crime in my country. If you need an example of doing the right thing just look to the Editor he is an inspiration although he would need the patience of a saint to get through to you. I wish you well Christian, my offer to pay for your treatment to be sterilised by Soi dogs still stands.
September 3, 2014 15:24
Christian, It is evident form your comments, not just in this instance, that you are not only Zoo phobic, but intolerant of anyone, that has the audacity to disagree with you.
In your first comment you refer to picketing, this clearly demonstrates your age, as well as going a long way to explaining your views. This is 2014 Christian, no one pickets today, they use social media, which has far more impact and can rapidly extend its reach beyond the shores of Phuket, to an international forum. A recent petition in California, seeking to ban aquatic shows received 1.2 million signatures. So while its difficult for you dinosaurs to realise that public perceptions and environmental awareness have increased significantly since 1964 when the first SeaWorld opened in the USA (coincidentally the same year your brain stopped developing) they have. In the first quarter of 2014 Seaworld visitor numbers declined by 13%.
No decent, animal loving human being can support this development - so what does that make you? For clarity, it's a rhetorical question you have nothing to say that I want to listen to. Continue to live in your selfish cocoon, please make sure you enjoy your freedom and have everything you want, don't give a second thought to anyone or anything else. You really are the ultimate personification of greed and selfishness. Congratulations.
September 3, 2014 15:37
So basically you agree to oppose this cruelty to Dolphins provided that the reasoning is sound? I am so happy that we can now focus on what really matters, stopping these Greedy Developers and their cruel exploitation of Sublime wild creatures, teaching you English and now that you have time since you are on the right side, I have some ironing that needs doing. Obviously morally I cannot use laundrys here as they generally exploit their workers. Now there is a thought the Russians could convert their building to a laundrette.
September 3, 2014 15:42
Are any dolphinarium dolphins around the world born in captivity or are they all wild, captured, and brought into captivity? Just wondering if they were born into captivity would that then change people's perspective at all?
If they were born into captivity and never knew their wild and natural habitat, would those anti dolphinarium folk still be anti? And thus if so, what realistically is the difference between a dolphin being born into captivity and performing, and an everyday pet such as a dog/ cat/ fish being born into captivity and performing for their owner?
September 3, 2014 15:46
"Brian" made 3 mistakes per one sentence, so he definitely would not get any satisfactory mark in English:
There are written laws and their(THERE) are moral values (COMMA) and sometimes a moral value evolves into a law recognised by a sovreign(SOVEREIGN) nation and further globally.
Comment entries are casual text, so, unlike for formal texts, I don't do manual spellchecking, it goes as good as is spellchecked by a tool provided by Mr. Thomas Cook. So typos sometimes become really funny after that automatic spellchecking. I think it is clear for everyone who use modern gadgets, not just type in IE6 on desktop.
In regard of language skills remarks you are both apparent Anglo-Saxon chauvinists taking a comfort that your mother-tongue of English after WWII took a position of German in Europe and became lingua franca worldwide.
Hope that your own foreign language skills are not limited just to basic Thai.
I have no association with Chalong Dolphinarium in either contexts mentioned. I got my info from media and that is all I know about it; so far I even never went to see it.
If I will go to Villa Market in HomePro another day, then may be I will take a look what that dolphinarium is.
There is only two kinds of arguments were put:
1) on moral grounds - it is not valid neither Thai mainstream society upholds moral values of rejecting use of animals for entertainment shows, and of associated abuse, nor "West" in regard of dolphins as there is big number of dolphinarium around the world. Thus it can't be referred as moral values in practical terms.
I myself is not going with a crowd that going to "oppose something", unless understand well details of the issue myself.
I am not sure that every dolphinarium per se is a huge evil, much more than average evil of keeping of animals in zoo, and, then I simply don't acquainted well with a topic of dolphinariums conditions , so that's why I will not uphold this point.
2) on grounds of negative divergence to common standards of dolphin well-being : could be valid argument, if facts are presented. So far only general statements - "too small" , "unsuitable"'etc.
Produce a valid argument what is non-compliant in Chalong dolphinarium, otherwise your speech is just empty words.
Argumentum ad hominem (check with a dictionary, please, to avoid rising false alarms about my grammar ;) ) is all what in the end you both were able to produce, no valid arguments, only blah-blah-blaah.
September 3, 2014 15:59
@Sue: I wasn't going to post further but after your trashy ignorant answer that English people are chauvinists is plain buffoonery. You also stated earlier that there was a dolpinarium on BVI, which I checked with my brother who lives there, and here is an excerpt from his response: ''Dolphinariums? Whatever next. The only animals you will see in cages are crabs and lobsters. Zoos are against the law as are holding wild animals in captivity. We do have a swimming with dolphins excursion at dolphin discovery close to Road Reef Marina, but these are wild dolphins used to human contact and they come and go as they please. It's a good source of income from the yank tourists who come off the ships''.
Sue, as with the taxis, I don't think you've ever travelled beyond Wikipedia, let alone the BVI.
September 3, 2014 16:31
Seriously i went to do some work for a few hours to discover now it takes a minute to scroll down the page because of your nauseating drivel.
I dont mean to be rude but go outside thak in some of that fresh air on this beautiful day.
September 3, 2014 16:56
Actually, Sue I am not Anglo Saxon,and English is not my mother tongue.Your quote was almost eloquent.
I come from central Asia,and where I am from it is not considered chauvanistic for a woman to perform ironing for a man.Our women perform many services for the men of our country,always with a smile and sharp creases.
You are right we digress from the important subject of morality, doing the right thing or not acting when another party harms another party that cannot defend itself.
If we have the power to act and we do not,surely we commit a moral crime. I do not ask you to man a barracade but to save these poor deefenceless Dolphins from a cruel fate. Confine your self to your room as was suggested for just a short time and perhaps you can begin to understand the abject cruelty that faces these poor wild Dolphins. Try not to become so angry there is such unrequited passion in your answers please find some in your heart for these lovely dolphins. If you are looking for the proposed dolphinarium its next to Phuket Zoo, and yes its really small.
September 3, 2014 17:01
fundamental question.In previous times when a slave was born into slavery do you think he or she understood any difference between being a slave an not. Was the moral question any less? Oh its ok he was born a slave he doesn't know any different !
We are apparently the top of the foods chain, have a conscience an have the gift and burden of this conscience and must make the right moral choices. Ask yourself the question is it right in this day and age when we have technology to enslave an animal/mammal for its entire life for profit. There is no aspect of conservation in this project,its for commercial greed with no thought for the welfare of the dolphins.
My dogs and cats don't perform for me, but I care for them and we dervive a mutual pleasure and not for profit. Dolphins have been proven to have superior processing skills so please spare me the comparisons with Chickens,although they too deserve to be treated humanely.
September 3, 2014 17:18
Sue, as well as being verbose, fatuous and poorly researched you are also morally bankrupt. There comes a point when there is nothing else one can do to persuade someone, without morals and human decency, that cruelty and suffering are just simply wrong.
With regard to ???raising false alarms about your grammar?????; it is indeed alarming, but in no way false, your grammar is appalling. To be fair, your use of ???Argumentum ad hominem?????, was well positioned and perfectly in context. Now, please find a different thread to comment on.
September 3, 2014 17:48
"Swimming w/dolphins " it IS the open air dolphinarium - with so murky water , so that I even didn't bother myself to get into water and to the attraction.
Wild dolphins?? On some stage in their previous life probably they were. There is open-air enclosure where they kept.
Here we go:
September 3, 2014 19:25
@Sue: Dream on, a dolphinarium is not the open ocean, and the open ocean is not murky. Carry on obtaining your information from the www and you can dream you are anywhere. Others know better. I shan't bother answering any more of your retorts.
September 3, 2014 21:30
You even never been there and make such funny armchair comments :D
The enclosure is by shore, it is rather small, when I get there water was murky indeed - apparently dirty , whether it was some by-product of dolphins, or of recently departed cruise passengers , or residues of feed - I don't know, it was in a contrast with the rest .
And when you visited last time BVI? This attraction is relatively new one, I don't remember it in 2004, 2005 and 2007 , been there 2013.
How many countries did you visited , please?
Beside 25 in Europe, more 44 countries/territories on other continents, so in total 69:
Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Seychelles, Mauritius, Madagascar, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, USA, Anguilla, Antigua &Barbuda, Bahamas, Saint Martin/Sint Maarten,British Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico,Dominican Republic,Cayman is.,Turks &Caicos is.,Guadeloupe,St. Lucia,Australia,New Zealand,Fiji,French Polynesia,Cook is.,Vanuatu, New Caledonia,Guam,Palau,Marshall is.,Federated States of Micronesia
Still, although you described in quite competent way UK last dolphinariums, you didn't point out what exactly is non-compliant at Chalong dolphinarium. Would be there some data, not just opinions, I would may make my own opinion on opposition to this project.
September 4, 2014 00:07
I assume your brother is of fictional character , or simply doesn't leave his GM leather chair to visur such places himself.
Click "Gallery" and you would see both the enclosure perimter, and yes, murky water - sorry didn't know there is such gallery, otherwise would point to it once :
So no open ocean,no wild dolphins.
However your brother may mean some other activities , but for some unclear for me reasons is not aware about this one.
You owe me apologizes ;)
September 4, 2014 00:26
Sue Phuketwan is not a lonely hearts or online dating site. Its is a forum for meaningful discussion and intelligent debate about real issues. Its not a platform for your rather boring self justification.For most people travel broadens the mind and people realise that they are one of 7 billion people and part of a greater global eco sysytem. Whilst you witter on about yourself this exceptional species faces a cruel life here in Phuket.
Pete please dont waste anymore of your time on this selfish, self obsessed woman.
Editor as usual you have created a fantastic forum for real debate and raised awareness of imprtant issues. Please could you edit out any future self promoting diatribe from Sue.
September 4, 2014 07:39
No, I certainly don't think it's okay. To keep any animal captive, exploit it, to perform cheap tricks and shows for profit is to me immoral. Who is behind it do you know?
Unfortunately, there is a perceived market demand for these type of abusement shows, to cater mainly for the Chinese and Russian tourists. Where a demand exists, for certain there is greedy, callous investor looking to make a quick buck, irrespective of the torment and suffering caused.
It's a sad indictment.
September 4, 2014 13:03
@ Harry and shameless. I think crodile farming is good. We get to shoot them, eat their meat and turn their hides into useable items. Just like we do with cows, sheep and goats etc. Thats why they are here. Oh and what about dolphins, well, do you really think you eating tuna when you open up a tin of tuna fish to put on your sarmies? Well think again. Now that tastes like dolphin who get caught up in the nets.
September 4, 2014 14:02
Duncan B, Can only assume that you were bullied or abused as a child, you seem to think its amusing that other living creatures live under abject cruelty and have no quality of life.You relish the fact that intelligent mamals have been killed indescriminately. You are obviously a lower class Brit with no sense of environmental or moral decency, I had hoped that the latest crack down on visa runs would erradicate your kind here on Phuket. Wouldn't you be happier watching cage fighting in Pattaya.
Save us all from Duncan
September 4, 2014 16:02
Even Sues worst enemy would say she's a enthusiastic researcher one must admire that admiral quality no matter what your personal opinion on the subject matter.
September 4, 2014 19:00
These dolphins weren't captured, they were ENSLAVED. Dolphins are as sapient as any human, they aren't livestock!
Malcolm J. Brenner
September 4, 2014 23:47
@ Save us all from Duncan. Wrong about me, but you ask me, "You relish the fact that intelligent mammals have been killed indiscriminately. No. I detest it. Who do we have thank for this indiscriminate killing of all humans and beasts, yes MAN himself. We are the most dangerous of all living things on this planet.P.S. I have never done a visa run, don't have to.
September 6, 2014 06:38
Any man can make msitakes,but only an idiot persists in his error. (MTC)
Duncan B is for Boring
September 8, 2014 14:33
If the authoritys don't recognise the strength of feeling against this pool of death and shut it down, they will force us to take our own action. This can be an example to prove to the international community that Thailand is a progressive thinker in the 21 century, not stuck in the dark ages.
September 21, 2014 22:49
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