Those who ask for or accept a bribe are by definition corrupt and must be rooted out to improve Phuket and maintain the tourist industry at sustainable levels.

Posted by Arthur on October 20, 2013 05:26

This presents an interesting topic.
Are we Westerners looking at this through our biased filters and applying western traditions to this culture with a prejudice and self-righteous attitude?

Are there taxes collected here for vendors? Is there a permitting process for street vendors? It sounds like this "ancient" system in place in thailand works somthing like this:

No centralized government, no strong tax base but still a fee based system where you pay to play. And just like our system, when business is booming then those fees increase because the total profits increase.

We all know that the police do not make enough salary to support a family and yet the services they do provide (law & order) are necessary. The Thai culture has been satisfied for quite some time with this system of paying "bribes" or call it what you want for these necessary services.

Who exactly are any of us expats to come to this country and be so bold as to tell the Thai how they should live their lives or that they should model themselves after us.

Would Thais rather have the system they developed or would they rather have higher taxes and permitting fees to support higher police salaries and bloated beaurocracratic processes?

Posted by Concerned & Curious on October 20, 2013 09:05

@Concerned & Curious I agree with you on the "who are we" etc - up to a point. All the bars, restaurants, street vendors are probably paying these so-called bribes, protection money is surely a better description. The main problem in Patong appears to be that the money gathered form this bounteous harvest looks to be disappearing into the pockets of the select few. I saw it written somewhere [on phuketwan, actually] the money was put towards "good governance". I see no evidence of that whatsoever around Patong. Is there one single point on the town roads where pedestrians can cross without fear of being mowed down? Pavements are a disgrace? The constant flooding is a product of bad planning and lack of foresight. When there is no flooding the public are then subjected to clouds of dust and other horrors to breath in. Surely expats and tourists are entitled to some level of safety and all round pleasantries during their stay. There may well be an age old system of doing things but the incredible greed has just made a mockery of all things decent.

Posted by Sudo Nim on October 20, 2013 10:19

@concerned & curious
Well said. However if Thais like to make their living on tourism, they need to know what tourists accept and what tourists are not willing to pay for. Most foreigners don't really care how business is done here as long as people don't get ripped off. At the end of the day most tourists go home after vacation and don't think about Thailand until the next holiday planning becomes an issue. Foreign expats on the other hand always like to critisize and to have their say, which is fine, but the important call will always come from the locals. Not the expats.

Posted by Jakub on October 20, 2013 10:36

The main cause of all troubles, in Phuket and Thailand at large, is the greedy corruption amongst from low-paid officers up to senior civil servants at the highest positions in all ministries.
Anyone amongst civil servants willing to fight corruption is transfered to another province or to a non-active position to block those good civil servants.

Another cause that corruption will not be erased, is that all comments from different senior civil servants in charge to eradicate automatic bribes for any protection from local administration, confirmed that they do not want to arrest Thai people such as wrongdoers, fraudsters, land-grabbers, mafia-clans in charge tuk-tuk and taxi cartels or at worst a slap on the hand to save the face.

Anyway, media forums and magazines online are doing a good job to publish their bad behaviors and names of those predators and one day Thai people may say once at all that the game is over....WE HOPE.

Posted by Whistle-Blower on October 20, 2013 12:35

- C & C

You may have missed the fact that the article is about one Thai man at odds about corruption with another Thai man.

Where you pull your "Farang" card out is beyond me.

As to your claim the police provides Law and Order - well, what they provide depends way too often on what someone pays. That's neither law nor order, just abuse of power.

Or, as my neighbor, a Thai police officer so befittingly put it " I am the Law ! "

If you'd read polls where Thais voice their opinion about the most corrupt institutions, you'd find that complaints about police asking for bribes tops the list.

Furthermore please familiarize yourself with how high Thai police ranks in terms of honesty and trustworthiness among Thais.

That's hardly "Thai culture has been satisfied for quite some time with this system of paying bribes" as you claim.

There's much more to it than just the simple survey you've obviously come across where about 60% of Thais say they accept corruption as long as they can benefit from it.

Which itself is of course a paradox because the "benefit" simply depends on "benefits" paid.

Posted by ThaiMike on October 20, 2013 15:43

"Thaksin Shinawatra ... posting on his Facebook page a call for Thai police to 'clean up' Pattaya and Phuket."

Pot, kettle, black.

Posted by Buster on October 20, 2013 18:57

@ThaiMike

Whoa Hoss. "farang card"? I didn't even know I had been dealt that card or that I could play it. Do you have one too? Cool.

I did see that the article is about one Thai having issue with another Thai about who is the corrupt one. In my short time here it seems that those in power are quite corrupt. Perhaps I am wrong? If not, then it begs the question as to whether this is endemic in thai power circles because it has been this way for centuries as a Thai official was quoted as saying.

Yes, police provide "law & order". Never said they provide it evenly or to all...nasty habit puting words into someone else's mouth.

As for society being most angry with thai police cooruption, I would say that it is common in all societies for the public to dislike the police. It has to do with people not liking someone to have authority over them and police are at that daily interface where authority meets public. Are you suggesting police corruption is greater than any other corruption in terms of Bhat spent?

Also, are you saying that police accepting bribes is a recent development in thai culture? I was not aware of that--I thought it had a long history. Details of when it started please.

Any youa re right, I did come across a simple survey that 60% of Thais have no issue with corruption. That is a majority I believe so could be considered a societal acceptance and support of corruption...which brings me back to my original question: If corruption is acceptable with Thais int heir own country then who am I, a farang, to tell them they are not allowed to have this view.

Perhaps this moral authority is how you play "your" farang card?

I wrote the original post simply to offer an opportunity for all of us to reflect on if and how our own prejudices play out here in a foreign land. This might be uncomfortable for some. Don't let it get you stressed ThaiMike, it was only an exercise.

Cheers

Posted by C&C on October 21, 2013 23:23