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I like your phrase 'most convincing action yet'; it strikes a positive note & hope for the future. The Phuket Crime Crisis Centre needs to publicize a hotline number or numbers now that anyone can call.
Posted by Logic on July 25, 2013 12:30
Tell the DSI, that, according to the editor of Phuketwan, there is no such thing as mafia in Phuket.
Posted by Charles on July 25, 2013 13:05
There is no such thing as the Mafia on Phuket. The word is misused by you and other no-hopers. ''Nothing will ever change.'' Wrong on both counts, Charles.
at last we will see the problem solved... I LOVE THIS.
Posted by Frog on July 25, 2013 13:13
I can reccomend everyone to read the article "Merit and Power in the Thai Social Order", published in American Anthropologist 6 (1962)!
Posted by Martin on July 25, 2013 13:35
From YOUR article Mr Ed 'The DS director said there was a Thai ''mafia group''. Therefore your comment to Charles- 'The word is misused by you and other no-hopers' would indicate that the DSI Director is also a no hoper! If the DSI Director has no hope of knowing what is going on here do you expect results?
Posted by Mister Ree on July 25, 2013 13:46
The DSI director and other Thais use the word ''mafia'' loosely and incorrectly, out of habit. They don't mix it up with the (terrorist killer) Mafia, as readers like Charles do. The difference between the DSI director and Charles is that Charles knows it's the wrong word yet continues to use it. When we catch up with the DSI director, we'll also let him know too, if the Vice Governor hasn't already done so.
Definition of "Mafia" - 1.An organized international body of criminals, operating originally in Sicily and now esp. in Italy and the US.
Posted by Fiesty Farang on July 25, 2013 14:05
The word is constantly misused and that's why we prefer ''monopoly'' when referring to the tuk-tuk and taxi drivers. Monopoly is accurate. Mafia is not accurate. Other dictionaries apply it to groups of people of all kinds, eg, the tennis players' ''mafia.'' Many readers form an inaccurate impression unless the right words are used. We are obliged, though, to quote others when they use it incorrectly.
Ed, I think like myself most people think groups of people that have little respect for the law in order to charge high prices and knowingly engage in illegal activities are "mafia" which is exactly what these people are doing. The authorities don't want to use the word as it has a negative impact on Tourists well they should have thought of that before it got to this stage now the island of Phuket has a bad reputation partially because of modern technology like the internet, one scandal can be all over the world in 1 minute, but it is obvious many groups of people running scams this is what they are to most people, mafia. Anyway let's hope the DSI make some improvement. I only ever use one Taxi and he is very reliable, has a clean car with excellent aircon and does not charge above the "normal" high rate. I am planning a trip to Laos soon across the "Friendship Bridge" and what a pleasant surprise to read about the low taxi fares both on the Thai side and the Laos side.
Posted by Fiesty Farang on July 25, 2013 14:22
I am more hopeful than ever that Phuket will finally have it's major problems rectified
Posted by Arthur on July 25, 2013 14:26
Let us stop quibbling about the use or misuse of individual words & let us ALL unite for the common cause of stopping the people (call them what you like) that are wrecking this once beautiful island.
Posted by Logic on July 25, 2013 14:42
Cosa Nostra translation our thing & the tuks tuks are sure doing there's but not for much longer by this very postive report, the shineing light in this report is the 15 day rotation to prevent cosy relationships and secret commission arrangements by corrupt individuals which would sabortage it from hour one, at last they are serious about the issues here!
Posted by slickmelb on July 25, 2013 16:05
And police, traumatised by what they hear, can return to Bangkok and sek counselling.
"Foreigners who came to Phuket often ripped off each other. In other cases, the foreigners joined with Thais to execute the rip-offs." May be foreigners are behind tuk-tuk/taxi mafia?
Posted by Stranger on July 25, 2013 16:14
Guesswork. Extreme guesswork.
Great news go get them lads, all of them high and low especially the high ones.
Posted by scunner on July 25, 2013 16:19
Will there be any special no. to dial in case someone needs support with scams or gets in trouble with illegal taxis/tuktuks?
Posted by Jakub on July 25, 2013 16:42
I am living in Phuket since 25 years. So, why it is so hard to beleive?
Posted by oops on July 25, 2013 17:32
If these people (jet-ski boys, taxi, tuk-tuk drivers) call themselves "mafia" (I heard myself it from them many times), why anybody else should use another term?
Posted by Stranger on July 25, 2013 17:49
Because they're really just a small gang, not Mafia. If you call yourself a handsome hero, should we all agree?
I like the idea of rotating police force.
Posted by ThaiMike on July 25, 2013 17:52
The methodology for removing corruption is different. As you know, Phuketwan recommends turning Phuket into a corruption free island and then exporting the Phuket model to the rest of Thailand. Gathering police from other parts of Thailand would not end corruption. The Lee Kwan Yew system involves establishing a new generation of cleanskin officials, from scratch. This is not to say there aren't honest police in Thailand and even on Phuket, only that to beat corruption requires a ''start again'' approach, not a ''swap them for outsiders'' model.
Ed, seeing you want to use the CORRECT words, as I have previously pointed out monopoly is wrong, the correct word is oligopoly, please correct you usage, or be accused of hypocrisy. I am pleased to see someone has also point out the "mafia" is correctly used by the rest of the world, but not acceptable by you, you are only one out of possibly millions, a lone voice not accepting the norm.
Posted by Phuket_IOC on July 25, 2013 17:53
When it comes to hypocrisy, you will always set new standards, Phuket_IOC. Why not stick with the topic. I have better things to do than spend 'Groundhog Day' with you.
Posted by Somjet on July 25, 2013 20:51
If Phuket had the Mafia, there would be no tourists. What Phuket has are greedy bands of like-minded individuals whose only concern is enriching themselves at the expense of others. But yes, you are right. The problem needs fixing.
Posted by Doug on July 25, 2013 21:14
To respond in kind, only in Thailand would an anonymous contributor imagine that he could say whatever he likes, leaving others to take responsibility.
Posted by Bob on July 25, 2013 23:29
i really like the sound of bangkok intervention. But they need to get some realistic pricing back on the island, starting with the tuk-tuks and taxis. But are they prepared to dictate lower rates? I don't think so.
Posted by jimbo on July 26, 2013 04:00
Ed, groundhog day indeed, however, but I would remind YOU that it is YOU that creates the problem by NOT accepting correct, by the rest of the world, as defined by all English dictionaries, use of words, it is NOT me that is at fault, but you, all this will stop if you accept what is accepted by the rest of the English speaking world.
Posted by Phuket_IOC on July 26, 2013 06:04
We'd prefer to avoid confusion by avoiding words that are not specific. There is the Mafia, killers and cutthroats, and there is the ''mafia,'' which could mean a group of tennis players or a knitting circle. Readers will form different impressions, most of them false.
If this is to have any impact at all the proposal from DSI will have to go on for a minimum of 1 year otherwise it will be a waste of time.
Posted by Dave W on July 26, 2013 06:05
Posted by Simon Luttrell on July 26, 2013 07:06
I'm just afraid that they are trying to tackle too much at once. All the problems noted by many here and PW are multi-layered and will take a long time to sort out.
Posted by GiantFan on July 26, 2013 08:33
Ed, it seems to me that the only person confused with the word "mafia" is you, none of your readers seem to be, unless you consider them illiterate morons, along with all the Thais that use the word. If it is good enough for Thais to use, without you "correcting" them, sure we your readers should be grant the same privilege, or are we consider lesser beings. You still have not addressed the incorrect use of "monopoly" so I and your readers must assume you are incapable of admitting you may be wrong.
Posted by Phuket_IOC on July 26, 2013 09:44
Perhaps you should stop playing a drama queen and read what the Vice Governor said, Phuket_IOC. That makes at least two of us. Inappropriate use of the word ''Mafia'' confuses readers, exaggerates the scale of the island's problems and damages Phuket's reputation needlessly. It's an over-the-top statement, and a great word for headlines in newspapers aiming to entertain illiterate morons. Oligopoly doesn't have quite the same appeal. We aim to be both accurate and intelligible and stick with monopoly.
The sooner the rest of us mortals in the world get around to your way of thinking the way you do regarding the word "mafia", the better and less tedious your comments will be. A 15 day rotation period for the police could mean they will get nothing done and will have no incentive to do anything. 3 months better?
Posted by USA on July 26, 2013 10:03
The reason for the rotations, or so we believe, USA, is so the police do their job without the time to establish connections to become corrupt. They will be carrying out the orders of higher-ups who will determine what they target. Then the police can go back to Bangkok and have trauma counselling.
I am wondering what kind of more important meeting the Governor could have had in BKK than this one in Phuket? I feel he is "gone" somewhere else every time something important is happening here.
Posted by Chris on July 26, 2013 10:57
Posted by Stranger on July 26, 2013 11:47
Actually two of our reporters were the, at a large blockade in January. One reporter was even mistaken for a Russian. She is still alive.
A great part of the reason for corruption in the Thai public sector is that higher positions in the sector are bought and sold and the only way they can get their "investment" back is to exploit the system and be open to corruption...the users of the system are aware of this and exploit it to their benefit .... this is also the reason why most Thais accept the present system as they are either involved as a receiver or payer of corruption or have close relatives that are. This is an 'evil' circle that is very difficult to break as if corruption suddenly stopped then a lot of people would sit back with a loss...the money they paid to get their position.
Posted by Sailor on July 26, 2013 12:33
That's the negative. The positive response is, as we've suggested, to establish a ''Phuket model'' that replicates the Singapore idea of starting from scratch with cleanskin officials. Phuket is ideal for this kind of innovation because it's international. Then the model can be exported to other provinces.
It's time for the Airport-Kata-Karon Bus, roll on!
Posted by George on July 26, 2013 12:57
Editor is right about the using of the word "M****" to call there "Gang" M**** is ignorant and even an insult to the Real M**** which originally was developed in sicilia hundreds of years ago to PROTECT its people though they were lacking of real police enforcement.. in Phuket we see the quite opposite .. M**iosos are extremely serious about keeping a low profile and focus on business. yes even illegal , thats why u people persist in keep on calling them "M****" ... According to Giovanni Falcone which lead the headhunting of the Sicilian M**** in the early 80s (rip) is The M**** the most effective state on the earth, do u think these Thugs you are so keen to upgrade to this status are that,? No. they are not discreet nor effective or sophisticate, they are neither well planned organized like that. the real m**** are surely businessman and focus on that, as they all say "its not personal, just business " They people u call M**** should only be callaed a gang off violent terrorist with only one target. -- using violent behavior against Tourists the gain as much cash as possible easiest way possible. are they successful , not very coz they ruin business for everyone else and will therefor be the target from the whole world and specially from Higher authorities in Their own country.. they are not a M**** only a Violent GANG that NEEDS to be PUT DOWN!!!
Posted by Frog on July 26, 2013 14:38
Don't really understand why Singapore is being held up as an ideal, why don't try to replica real democracies like Denmark, Sweden, Finland and New Zealand that all consistently over a long period of time have been in the lead as the most corruption free communities...and hereto add that they are real democracies as well, Singapore is more like a small business oriented empire .
Posted by Sailor on July 26, 2013 14:38
It's how you get from being a corrupt country to a corruption-free country that's the issue. Those developed countries have no experience with endemic corruption. Singapore's example is appropriate and workable. The other nations you mention do not have traditions of corruption going back hundreds of years. Applying developed country notions to Thailand on virtually any issue is doomed to fail. Asia sets its own examples.
Yes can we stop using the word m****, Its "gang related extortion" and "governmental related extortion" from here on in, hope that clears that up
Posted by Clive on July 26, 2013 15:05
Frog, I believe you and Ed need to accept that the accepted term "m****," unless you both are prepared to take on all dictionaries, I suggest you both would FAIL in your quest. Accept what is fact and stop trying to change the world, you simply do NOT have enough support. I truly believe, going by PW's "Play of the day" Ed deliberately creates these situations simply to get a HIGHER hit on Alex.com, no other journalists question the use of the word "m****" or refuse to accept that "monopoly" is the wrong word.
Posted by Phuket_IOC on July 26, 2013 15:29
You are confused. Media organisations that use the word 'mafia' are seeking greater readership. We are intent on being fair, balanced and accurate. I don't have time for your lies, Phuket_IOC. Take your shoddy, second-rate mind elsewhere.
@ phuket_IOC... U couldnt be more wrong. These Thugs, Gang without a strong intelligent leader are no more than Terrorist that ruin business for everyone.. In the real world where M...... are established they would not do so.. no one gains a living of this and its pointless business wise in they absolute nearest future. this is not organized or anything. u know so and everyone else also. u just wanna be seen in this forum and have not much to bring about the subject. this is TERRORISM nothing else.. get over it and add some knowledge which is important.. doesnt matter if everyone want to use the M word. its wrong. do ur homework. ..
Posted by Frog on July 26, 2013 16:20
Yes, Phuket_IOC, do your homework.
Who is this idiot Mr Senior Staffer?
Posted by Amazed in Thailand on July 26, 2013 16:50
We assumed when the guidelines were written that readers would be well-informed about events and have wisdom and information to impart.
Ed and Frog,I don't understand the stupidity of people who simply can not read a dictionary and accept the defined definition, can either of you say that all dictionaries are wrong and only you are right, by not accepting the truth then you are only showing your own ignorance and I for one do not know why you both show the world how idiotic your attitude is. Show me any dictionary that contradicts the established accepted definition, do that and I will apologise, I hope you two are man enough to do the same.
Posted by Phuket_IOC on July 26, 2013 17:47
Here you are again, Phuket_IOC, on your wild testosterone trip. You're assuming - which seems to be the course of action you prefer to attempting logical thought - that Frog and I are ''man enough.'' The deal with dictionaries is knowing how to apply the right word in the appropriate situation. Frog and I both say that Mafia is confusing in the Phuket context. The Vice Governor agrees. And do you know something, Phuket_IOC? She's a female.
Whatever happened to Major General Chote Chawanwiwat "Behave or Else"....think he was from another part of Thailand.Wonder what the "else" was?
Posted by David on July 27, 2013 06:55
I know ,let's call all corrupt,criminal and bureaucratic activity "Disorganized Crime"
Posted by david on July 27, 2013 08:28
I really hope that DSI will be able to do there job but honestly how long it will last, it remember me the famous 30 Days Crackdown on crime in pattaya a short time ago. As you guess nothing change then.The key point is zero tolerance for guns and drugs and corruption. For sure it will never happen. I believe that in many country foreigners and locals don't mix well locals just demultiply the bad habit that they see in farrangs. And honestly young thai generations are just as bad as the youth from europe.
Posted by stephane on July 29, 2013 20:50
... the police do their job without the time to establish connections to become corrupt." So now everyone knows how long "could" eventually take a thai police man (coming form BKK special department) to be corrupted: 16 days... really I'd like to know the time for normal policeman from Phuket...
Posted by dave on July 30, 2013 10:13
It's the standard kind of rotation period to maximise efficiency, dave. During the tsunami aftermath, investigating police from overseas were mostly rotated every 15-17 days. There was no suggestion they were being corrupted.
i just read this today on the 11th of august 2013.. let's see what happens in a year's time.
Posted by Mr Bean on August 11, 2013 02:35
Monday March 30, 2015