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An artist's impression of the way the condominiums should look

Off-The-Plan Phuket Condo Buyers Still Awaiting Construction Start in Patong

Thursday, April 30, 2015
PHUKET: About 30 buyers who have paid deposits and installments to purchase units at a condominium development in Patong protested to Phuket Governor Nisit Jansomwong yesterday.

The Ace Condominium was to be erected opposite Patong Hospital between February 2014 and April 2015 but work had yet to begin, the governor was told.

One woman told the governor at the Damrongtam complaints office at Phuket Provincial Hall that she had invested 2,297,000 baht in four units, valued at about 10 million baht.

Others said they had paid upwards of 300,000 baht, some in monthly installments as part of an off-the-plan purchase.

Efforts to have the owner explain what the problems were had failed, the condo buyers said.

Governor Nisit said he would attempt to get answers from the developer and get back to the buyers within 10 days.

Comments

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Sounds familiar! We've been waiting nearly 20 years for our condo to be built. Governor Nisit, please ask the Phataraprait family about the Yacht Haven housing project 1997!

Posted by David Haines on April 30, 2015 17:37

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David,
Just read some of the articles of your case. Very interesting but typical of the contempt shown towards Thai laws.
Interesting defence which I quickly interpreted, states, we have been able to drag this out for so long and so much time has passed, we should not have to repay any money.
Good luck.

Posted by Manowar on May 1, 2015 06:26

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Big mistake here to buy of plan, plenty of completed condo's all over Phuket that have been on the market for ages with more being built every day which you can check out and move into straight away if you want to

Posted by peter allen on May 1, 2015 14:28

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Do comentators here, not know such basics in English, as the difference between of and off?
Please check your grammer.

Posted by Robin on May 1, 2015 16:01

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peter allen

what Phuket condo market looked like in 1997?

Posted by Sue on May 1, 2015 16:23

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I would not have a clue what the condo market was like in 1997, but since 2006 I have seen a lot of articles about people buying off plan and losing everything they have paid even units being sold to more than one buyer.
condo's, apartments, flats or what ever you want to call them do not interest me as a investment or to live in.
Most end up looking like slums after a few years, the same goes for terrace houses

Posted by peter allen on May 1, 2015 17:05

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peter allen

I mean in David's case in 1997 there was no on-plan condo market in Phuket, so in his particular case, that was reasonable decision.

I agree with that it is better to buy a ready to live condo, and even on secondary market, as it is in Phuket now cheaper than primary market.

Since David's case huge cahnges took a place in regard of Condomniums' buyer protection: special consumer protection law in regard of condos has been introduced, and also teh office of consumer protection board has been formed and given quite a lot of power, which they indeed use , also here in Phuket, for condo cases. On top, special rpocedure for dealing with consumer cases has been estabilshed for courts, and conumser protection board can or should upon request along with special clearks in teh court assist in drafting claims, there are shorter terms to start adjudication and there is no court fees for consumer plaintiffs.

Posted by Sue on May 1, 2015 23:14

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You are a foreigner? You want to buy a condo ( freehold) on Phuket? Never buy Off-The-Plan on Phuket Island! As a foreigner you walk alone in no mans land if they not start building. To many proved cases/stories about that.
Just buy a built completed condo with a chanote and blue housebook ( freehold!). And before you pay, check or there is water in your condo to flush toilets and water running taps on higher floors!

Posted by Kurt on May 2, 2015 09:53

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@ sue. From your last post, where did you get your dyslexic keyboard from, I think it is quite a novelty item?

Posted by Robin on May 2, 2015 10:22

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Hi Robin

Now I make plenty of ''typos'' myself. Please don't get me wrong in that regard. However, since you are providing unsolicited comments on the other readers' contributions you might also wish to see my assessments of your contributions.

Punctuation 5/10. Spelling 6/10. Manners 3/10. Irony 10/10. Cute picture 10/10.

Yes, I am a very generous marker. What do they say about people in glass houses?

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 2, 2015 12:23

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@ Ian Yarwood. "What do they say about people in glass houses?" We can see you. But hey if I want your opinion, I'll give it you mate.

Posted by Robin on May 2, 2015 13:21

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Dear Robin

There is an important story above about a condo development. The other contributors here focused on the main story and not on petty criticisms such as ''grammer'' (sic).

It is just a suggestion but why don't you focus on important issues instead of being petty.

In the movie 'GI Jane' a more senior soldier told Demi Moore's character that if he wanted her opinion then he would give it TO her. Your grammar scores 4/10. His grammar was fine.

I do not think you are more senior than anyone here so perhaps you should refrain from acting in such a superior manner? Just a suggestion.

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 2, 2015 14:45

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Sue, sorry to bother you but could you assist to translate Robin's last post for the rest of us.

"But hey if I want your opinion, I'll give it you mate."

Posted by Rawonam on May 2, 2015 14:49

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Robin,

from your yesterday 16:01 post, did you get the word "GRAMMER" from the online Urban dictionary, as it is the only dictionary where it is listed?

"grammer
A common typo for grammar. Most commonly found in sentences that correct someone else's grammar.
Your and idiot because you have bad grammer."
Don't take this too seriously or as an offence ;)
Since you are long time resident in Thailand, then you for sure well know, that among eight pillars of the local culture, is that individuals' actions are judged merely by a subjective intent , and not by objective criteria of a technical mistake or "how a fair competent Thursday person would judge the context in the same situation" - the one that much more disproportionally than in the West, exonerates an ordinary negligence , and rise the threshold of what is a gross negligence, on the account that it punished then much more brutally a malicious intent or an apparent lack of good faith. What is regarded as a culpable in the West , is often not culpable in Thailand (let's put serious issues like HR aside here).
Yesterday was a perfect beach day in Phang Nga, no rain, sunny, but with a slight overcast that makes the sun not so baking, not choppy seas, with 3G and Wifi.
I typed my post that you referred in regard of an imperfect grammar, on the iPad in Notes on the beach, until sunset, that happens these days around 18:45. Then I didn't have time to post it, and did it from the notebook after the dinner when Notes has been already synced - I just pasted what has been there.
On your question, which keyboard has caused the imperfect spelling:
I have 5 active keyboards provided by the Apple Inc., English UK, Thai, Emoji, and two more.
Also a power bank I use often with my iPad, has manifested an abrupt end of the service condition, so I had to decrease a brightness of the iPad screen to a half, although outdoor I usually put it to a full, then you have perfectly readable screen under the direct sunlight.
Having so many keyboard - instead of just one, say English UK, causes regular unintentional switching between keyboard, as it rather easy accidentally to touch a switch keyboard button - and even didn't notice it timely, if the new keyboard is in Latin letters too - and then you get a lot of wrong spelling , either because the keyboard of that another language doesn't detect misspelling in English, or adjust it in not comprehensive manner. Moreover more poor than usually visibility of the screen under the direct sunlight also was a contributing factor to imperfect spelling.
On top that, I had continuos supply of fresh shakes and icecreams - just to illustrate a scope of distractions and obstacles I have been facing on a Labor Day, that is a lazy day off .
This all combined clearly explains that apparently I didn't had a malicious intent to express disrespect toward readers, or to provoke them.
What caused the poor spelling various factors - good weather and related distractions, and a bunch of unusual technical issues.
So there is nothing culpable in Thailand about the misspelling you adressed, and I think you should not address it as a culpable conduct.

Also, in a wider context of an Information Age, the technical means of transmission information, incl. a language and grammar, play now much smaller role, as long as a meaning of information piece is well-understood in the end - and I think the above was like that, so not much to address about misspelling here too.

Posted by Sue on May 2, 2015 16:02

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Dear Sue and Rowanam

Sue, your quote from the Urban dictionary was spot on!

It does in fact say: 'Your and idiot because you have bad grammer'' cf ''You're an idiot because you have bad grammar.'' It is preceded by the sentence: ''Most commonly found in sentences that correct someone else's grammar.'' Well spotted!

How ironic!

You probably noticed that the second word of Robin's first effort was ''comentators'' cf ''commentators?'' as well.

Rowanam, I will translate for you. ''I'll give it you'' is a relatively uneducated way of saying ''I'll give it TO you.'' It is just an example of coarse vernacular.

Anyway, you probably also noticed that I left a question mark out at the end of one of my sentences. None of us are perfect especially in an informal forum such as this.

As Sue very correctly points out, there are more important things to concern ourselves with that a few typos here and there.

To be fair on Robin, I have seen from some of her other comments on this site that she can be polite. At other times she is less than polite especially when she says that the editor will be sleeping on a concrete floor in a Thai prison. See her comments of 23 May 2014 under the story ''Navy Phuketwan Talks Scrapped.''

Hopefully Robin will see the error of her ways and go back to being polite.

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 2, 2015 18:08

Editor Comment:

I know Robins who are not female, Ian.

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@Sue: I'm guessing, but out of all the readers of PW you would be the last person to correct a commenter's (not commentator's)English, as you provide the readers with so much incorrect spelling, grammar, punctuation etc. etc. giving them quite a laugh.

Posted by Pete on May 2, 2015 18:30

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Alan
Some are also Turdus Migratorius. Not sure I can add anymore!

Posted by Manowar on May 2, 2015 21:25

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Thanks Ian,
I'll have to travel to Sydney's western suburbs more often so I can catch up on the latest slang.

Posted by Manowar on May 2, 2015 21:39

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Mr.Hand a.k.a. "Pete" finally has arrived to the office!
Long time no see. Still it wasn't too late. Welcome! ;)
[VIDEO]

https://youtu.be/bc2muGlQIlk

BTW a gambling is illegal in Thailand, someone here has solicited you for your guesses..?

Posted by Sue on May 2, 2015 22:17

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Dear Ed and Pete

Ed, you are correct. There are Robins who are female. I think I jumped to a conclusion based partly on Robin's picture of a cute little bird. Robin, if I made a mistake there please accept my apology.

Pete, if you look at the string of comments above you should observe that Robin was initially critical of a small typo from peter allen. Peter made some good points, which Robin ignored.

Robin then decided to criticise Sue for some typos.

Sue was simply exercising a right of reply.

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 2, 2015 22:35

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sorry instead of worrying about English grammar , it would be helpful to write news related and help people who have invested money in Thai land and risk losing everything because there are these crooks !!! I apologize for my English writing . thanks

Posted by Lucky on May 4, 2015 19:44

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Dear Lucky

Excellent comment.

In fact, the problems highlighted in this story are not isolated to Phuket. Many purchasers have lost their deposits on projects in Bangkok and Chiang Mai too.

Unfortunately, Thailand does not have the same type of consumer protection laws that exist in many Western countries.

Other readers will know more about this than I do. Many of the readers also know that there are many innocent Thai investors who also lose their money.

It does seem that with many of these developments the purchasers are required to make a deposit and make several progress payments - and if they are late with just one payment they might lose their entire investment.

In contrast, it often seems that there is little practical recourse if the developer does not keep its side of the bargain.

It is normally better to invest with one's head rather than with one's heart. As one reader points out there are plenty of condos available for sale that have already been built. Many of the existing condos have been on the market for a long time too.

Why take on additional risk by buying off the plan? Why get seduced by a fancy presentation in a Patong shopping mall?

The Phuketwan story provides a great warning for those who read it. Unfortunately, there will probably be more investors in the future who never read such a warning.

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 4, 2015 22:17

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Dear Lucky

I think that before one purchases any condo in Thailand it is prudent to undertake a reasonable amount of research first.

You will note that peter allen said that he saw a lot of articles about condo developments. In fact, one can always perform a Google search and read many articles about buying real estate in Thailand.

A researcher might discover that there can be sovereign risk if there is a change in Thai law about the proportion of condos that can be owned by foreigners in any given development. Changes are often retrospective so if the legal proportion is reduced then the most recent foreign purchasers might be forced to sell at fire sale prices to Thai buyers.

Peter allen also said that he has seen condos on the marker ????????for ages.???????? I have seen many condos remain on the market in various parts of Thailand for well over a year. Think about how long it might take to sell a condo in Thailand if you ever needed the cash.

If a foreign buyer does take the plunge and purchases a condo he/she should also investigate what evidence is required to show that the funds came from offshore to avoid a big tax bill if the funds are to be returned offshore when the time comes to sell.

Do not assume that the real estate market in Thailand is anything like the real estate market in one????????s country of origin.

There are an awful lot of expats living in Thailand who simply choose to rent. The downside risk is so much lower.

Posted by Ian Yarwood on May 4, 2015 22:53

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If you have not decided to live permanently in Phuket why buy you are better of renting, I would
If you want to buy so you have a permanent home which you can maintain and improve if you want to and not be evicted from just take your time and travel all over the island checking out the back streets, for condo's Kathu is a good area to start with.
Personally I prefer living in a house and there is a huge selection for sale all over the island, if you check yourself you will soon find there is a big difference in prices for similar properties.
A lot of the properties available are really over priced and have been on the market for years not months
There are a few properties that come on the market with genuine sellers but they are few and far between, best to advertise yourself for the type of property you want, we did many times and eventually found what we wanted after 8 months looking and nearly giving up trying to find a fairly priced property that we liked

Posted by peter allen on May 7, 2015 10:14

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Dear Ian Yarwood and Peter Allen thank you the advice that you have posted . What have happened to me and to all those who believed in the project ACE Condominium probably be a well organized scam !!



I hope that is not the truth ... I do not want to think badly !!! But according to you, the builders incorporated the company 22.04.2013 and on the same day constituted the same company under other names of people without responsibility and economic hedges .



This in my opinion be a scam ... Hopefully in the Phuket Governor , Mr . Nisit Jansomwong , which put an end to these problems also for the image of Thailand views from all foreigners !! Thank you.

Posted by Lucky on May 8, 2015 02:01

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Dear mr Lucky, I am sorry to read about your property misery ( Ace Condo's). If you feel and can prove a property scam. Afterall you have signed buying papers/documents, signed as well by the sellers. In these documents is a contents about agreement, ( building time, payment schedules). You not need a chanote to let a Court rule here that you should get your money back.
Buying of the plan is in Thailand a risky thing. Buy a 'ready property', or rent.

I myself rented first 1 year, looked around and bought a nice house. The house was on my name, the land was lease. After a few years I sold it to a thai family, and again I bought another house, again house on my name (owner) and the land leased. I have the chanote and the house book.

Posted by Kurt on May 8, 2015 09:47

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Doing property business asks you stay here a while first ( rented), learn about local property thinking, make friends with other caucasians. Get introduced to Caucasian property brokers, learn about lawyers 'attitudes'. I was very lucky with a nice and sincere lawyer, open fair, contributive and not ripping off. Used his services for 2 'house buyings' and 1 sale. Was fine, pleasant and correct. Before buying property here, I suggest foreigners to rent first a year or so, learn, observe, make notes, sometimes in a short while you see that what you liked so much has a negative setting in different perspective and you remove it from your preference property list.

Posted by Kurt on May 8, 2015 13:27

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Indeed the governor should solve this serious problem first instead of dividing the beach in zones,ban sunbeds and chase away the tourists. Unfortunately thai people dont know priorities

Posted by Eric on May 8, 2015 18:18

Editor Comment:

Unless you have met every Thai, Eric, your comment is bigotry. You just don't know. So why not get over your ignorant assumptions, then look at issues with an open mind?


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